00:00:01.160 - 00:00:08.930

I'll just give you the thumbs up that I'm recording and I will wait a second. I was traffic coming down.

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That's where the studio. So figuring all those slightly more trouble, it's worth it to come out here doing it at the museum where they essentially

00:00:22.320 - 00:00:31.620

only this as a set of equipment here. This is already set up with me, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, this particular set of his for us.

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And also I want to step back later on. Take a picture. Oh, yeah. I was writing this as well. Yeah.

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And that's why I just didn't come. The best way for us to even examined history through stories. Not to eliminate that list of

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facts and things like that. I think that those stories, as we did history of years ago, through verbal communication stories exactly.

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Exactly. Exactly. What's your story. You're coming down here. Did you find any traffic? I asked you was what was it

00:01:09.560 - 00:01:25.280

that I didn't know this was going to be getting a head right here. It's a little bit. Alright. I got to meet her at it, right.

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And then obviously, that's going to come down here, right. I know I didn't know where to go because I know that

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worked in a building at night. So called him immediately. Right. I know when I came down everyday, started setting up

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for construction right where? Bypass the second Delaware exit when it goes to two lanes? Yeah.

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Our construction truck putting down the columns and then just bottleneck like he attempted the outside. When I called you, I

00:02:06.470 - 00:02:14.450

was not in not in this building, but good for parking spaces. I go riding around and I get confused when it says commit.

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All right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's just be mindful of the distance to the microphone, consistency of the volume level.

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So we want to check some levels now are not equal, just gave. All right. All right. So didn't start. Could you spell your name, say your name,

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and spell your name for us? Clinton Perkins. See in DON Perkins. Erk ins. I get when I was in school,

00:02:49.910 - 00:02:57.980

you say capital C? Capital C, right? Right. So you mentioned schools that esco So when were you

00:02:57.980 - 00:03:07.860

educated in Washington? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So take me through your schools and Warrington elementary schools.

00:03:07.860 - 00:03:16.700

It was called Mary CI Williams for me to Wilmington. I am. But it's a little quicker. Shopping centers where it

00:03:16.700 - 00:03:23.750

but for street corner in Monroe? Yes. School was there. Okay. There.

00:03:23.750 - 00:03:36.680

Yeah. That's about where the school was. Torn down since then I left there and went to buyer. Now, that's located activity

00:03:36.680 - 00:03:48.450

called a junior high school. And then from there I went to Howard. Hi, we're just now our career center. Really steep about two years.

00:03:48.460 - 00:04:05.140

And then came out to two years. Now, when we go back to the early parts of mid 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement was at,

00:04:05.140 - 00:04:17.150

some say we're sort of at its highest. So 1963 is the March on Washington. Do you remember Dr. King in your life, do you remember seeing him on

00:04:17.150 - 00:04:28.240

television or listening to him? And then he regards what was your experience with knowing about Dr. King and his work? In his work?

00:04:28.240 - 00:04:39.740

Well, I knew I knew of him, of course, from TV and different leaders like that before he was assassinated. But the marches in his speech,

00:04:39.740 - 00:04:50.840

his speech is really powerful you to remember those. I remember the Poor People's March on Washington. Yeah.

00:04:50.840 - 00:04:58.040

No. What does it do? What people tomorrow. What was the one where he stayed over the slip

00:04:58.040 - 00:05:07.750

outside and in tests and stuff because I forgot what it was, but they stayed out. It was some kind of protest and

00:05:07.750 - 00:05:15.340

remodel all over the country came. Washington Washington DC. When you see that intention stuff? While I was there.

00:05:15.340 - 00:05:22.730

Okay. Well, one reason why I remember that is because that was during the time when I was getting ready to get out of

00:05:22.730 - 00:05:30.310

school and that was it was going to be on graduation day, I think. I'm good now. What school what high school has been?

00:05:30.310 - 00:05:44.960

Great. Alright. So you went you in Washington DC as well as why did you go? Just just lend my support to the course. And I think it was reasonable.

00:05:44.960 - 00:05:58.280

I remember it because I gave up my problem, like to go there. I can't remember. Felt very nicely centered on someone's wrist. You were in DC motor.

00:05:58.280 - 00:06:05.330

It more important to me is more special. Why it was why was it important? Loud is special because it was about the struggle at that time.

00:06:05.330 - 00:06:11.150

And you know, there's Giotto was really coming into focus for our community. I didn't know. So I

00:06:11.150 - 00:06:16.820

just wanted to be part of that. I felt like that's what yeah. What did you hope to gain that were how would you

00:06:16.820 - 00:06:23.210

describe someone didn't understand what the struggle was, what was the what was the goal was, what was the objective of the struggle?

00:06:23.210 - 00:06:32.320

I never want to struggle with actually with some of the things you're struggling for today. Let u, equal rights, discrimination,

00:06:32.320 - 00:06:41.090

police brutality, better education, better schools for inner city schools, housing. Of course, you back then, it

00:06:41.090 - 00:06:48.280

was a big bang on discriminating against minorities in certain communities. They try to keep you from moving in there.

00:06:48.280 - 00:06:57.830

So, you know that that was what was going on then. That was happening on a national scene, but it happened right in Wilmington,

00:06:57.830 - 00:07:09.460

Delaware. And so yeah, it was pretty obvious. And some of what I read about when we talk about discrimination piece that

00:07:09.460 - 00:07:19.880

there were back then what they call slumlords. There was charging red lining, concentrating black folks

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into a certain area. Do you remember those? Those vaguely. Remember. You were active in so as you went and you were

00:07:30.440 - 00:07:42.260

sleeping in tents on your prime night with murder because it's raining. Raining and it's in a big field so we dissolve everywhere.

00:07:42.260 - 00:07:52.730

So but it was cool. I would do it again. You're doing it until you're about 18 years old in 1918 or maybe a year it

00:07:52.730 - 00:08:05.390

was definitely before, right? Right. Exactly. Employed assassinations. Now you know what? Dr. Martin between pairs

00:08:05.390 - 00:08:11.810

when he was assassinated, something was playing already. And once he was assassinated, be continued it, and I

00:08:11.810 - 00:08:20.020

think it was that Poor People's March. Because he wasn't there. He had, he had been decimated. His blog was already playing

00:08:20.020 - 00:08:34.430

before continuing. I believe that's right. Okay. All right. Okay. So where were you do you remember where you were when

00:08:34.430 - 00:08:45.880

you got the news that Dr. King was assassinated? You would think? I would remember. I'm not sure, wireless. You remember the feeling at the time

00:08:45.880 - 00:08:52.700

your feelings at the time of wrong, even if not in that moment, do you remember how you felt? Oh man, I just said just sadness

00:08:52.700 - 00:09:01.910

came over like disbelief. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. At that point. I guess things were kind of

00:09:01.910 - 00:09:13.740

believable because before he was assassinated, Kennedy speech again, certainly not remember. It needs more believable than before.

00:09:14.470 - 00:09:25.160

Then when once he was assassinated all over the country, there was a reaction. Do you remember what that reaction was?

00:09:25.160 - 00:09:36.130

Seeing images of that reaction or being a part of the reaction in a public way? I don't remember the reaction immediately after hearing about it.

00:09:36.130 - 00:09:53.110

Eventually came to this riots and protests. So it was about, there was a peace rally calling writing square almost about a

00:09:53.110 - 00:09:59.890

week after his assassination. And all the high school, it was organized by high school students. And everybody was asked to

00:09:59.890 - 00:10:09.220

come to writing square, we're running Square says right now and tenth and market to have a peace rally. And I understand that there were

00:10:09.220 - 00:10:16.330

high school students walk in from all over the city because the high-school students, but as Black students are spread out,

00:10:16.330 - 00:10:26.000

right, everybody can walk in. Peace rally at riding squared. You remember that peace rally and then. I'm pulling up my history.

00:10:26.000 - 00:10:34.390

That was the streets. So tell me about that. Well, just like you said, there was a call for a rally at Raleigh,

00:10:34.390 - 00:10:41.210

brought any square and then the rental market street. And we formed a group with people got together and

00:10:41.210 - 00:10:50.630

formed in March to the route that's where we're marching squares. So you, on your way to a, to a squared, alright? That's right.

00:10:50.630 - 00:10:58.640

That's Margaret sheet, 8-9 squares on market between 10th and 11th, right? So it's interesting that you're on your way

00:10:58.640 - 00:11:06.370

to this piece valid because many ways in which this picture that we're holding up a black men in the streets.

00:11:06.370 - 00:11:18.750

This has been used as a picture to show the uprising or the violent reaction to it. And that's not actually what were you if it hasn't happened yet,

00:11:18.750 - 00:11:30.880

you're going to the traveling to the rally. Right. Okay. So that's important. What I don't remember. Just before the riot or doing the right.

00:11:30.880 - 00:11:43.430

Remember if you're going to the value. What I understand is that after it was over at Market Street, okay. And then there were some vandalism

00:11:43.430 - 00:11:55.970

of businesses? It was after the rally was okay. 50 years ago, right? Yeah.

00:11:55.970 - 00:12:07.790

But do you remember that around this time that there was on the west side, right? Some fires that happened. Oh, yes. I do remember that. So tell me about that.

00:12:07.790 - 00:12:15.260

Tell me what you remember it but I don't know anything about it. Well, it's just far is it going from writing? People fall in love with cocktails,

00:12:15.260 - 00:12:22.970

setting fires, burning buildings. Now, that type of thing, it was just like any other ride. And we're shooting, people

00:12:22.970 - 00:12:36.350

being beat, pulled from cars. People became through the community, they got pulled over garlic, that'd be great. And the sad part about that

00:12:36.350 - 00:12:47.600

is some of those buildings burned down where they were white home, but that said in itself, but next to, adjacent to some of those businesses

00:12:47.600 - 00:12:52.670

was our people be live there and then there's someone that's stored up and down that family lived next door.

00:12:52.670 - 00:12:58.370

We've got birthday night. Yeah. I had interviewed most unfortunate anyway to have arised.

00:12:58.370 - 00:13:07.600

Unfortunate, but then when you run it on their own. So that's again was both. Yeah, who's interviewed in 1960,

00:13:07.600 - 00:13:15.620

$7 a year before his assassination on NBC News. And they would talk, he was asked about

00:13:15.620 - 00:13:21.650

his opinion about what people would describe it as, right? It's right. And he has this famous quote

00:13:21.650 - 00:13:29.690

and then he said to riot is the language of the unheard. And what has America unheard? Have they not heard, they have not heard

00:13:29.690 - 00:13:39.770

the plight of the Negro poor, right? What do you think he meant by that? And do you agree with that? First phase is the first time I

00:13:39.770 - 00:13:49.590

heard it. All right. So he said that the riot is the language, the unheard. And then he proposes the question,

00:13:49.590 - 00:13:58.280

and what has the America unheard wherever they not heard and they had not heard the economic plight of the nuclear pore.

00:13:58.280 - 00:14:07.840

Just to paraphrase, knew that if people are denied, as you describe that, they're affected by lack of housing,

00:14:07.840 - 00:14:16.070

unemployment, and injustice, inequality, that there are limited ways that they can express numerous tools and language

00:14:16.070 - 00:14:25.250

that they have to get attention to. The issues right there. That often is. I'm tool, is to be

00:14:25.250 - 00:14:34.490

industry and to bring attention to these, to these issues and the sense of hopelessness and helplessness. This is my paraphrase of it,

00:14:34.490 - 00:14:43.790

but I couldn't understand that. And they'll kind of pretty much agree with that. Those people are marginalized voices.

00:14:43.790 - 00:14:52.600

So what you're saying is, this is listened to me now. Do I have your attention now to the you didn't listen to me before.

00:14:52.600 - 00:15:02.540

You didn't pay me and attention. So this is this is done voice on this or they're expressing their feelings. And how would you describe her, Dr. King,

00:15:02.540 - 00:15:10.680

would these tools and these tools work because you often say when he talks about nonviolent reaction.

00:15:10.680 - 00:15:20.330

And that was the platform of the civil rights movement in a hurry was the spokesman, the face of that non-violent movement,

00:15:20.330 - 00:15:33.530

and he was violently murdered. So what message does that send to scientists who are in this picture? I did. Martin Luther King was

00:15:33.530 - 00:15:45.990

killed in their own way. Just shows a reflection of society then in probably now too. But I agree with nonviolence To a point.

00:15:46.530 - 00:15:57.110

I don't I don't I don't believe you should be valid about if you've been held down so long and you've been trampled on so long.

00:15:57.110 - 00:16:06.310

People are going to resort to other means besides nonviolence. And it may be, it may be appropriate to do that.

00:16:06.310 - 00:16:21.910

I wouldn't be initiate violence first as a first resort. I don't know how long legs with me. And I don't mean hurting anybody,

00:16:21.910 - 00:16:40.070

just defend myself in any way. Following these fires. There were there were at times media that will come into

00:16:40.070 - 00:16:46.730

the neighborhood to show the catheter stories. Right. And there was police that were coming

00:16:46.730 - 00:16:55.400

into the neighborhood. Do you recall it all, your neighbors or your family or anyone talking about

00:16:55.400 - 00:17:06.560

how the actual police were interacting with citizens, not simply not only the ones that were directly involved in vandalism or violence,

00:17:06.560 - 00:17:16.730

but how did the police interact with the citizens? The black sit back residents of Wyoming, San Antonio Brown, this pivotal battle time.

00:17:16.730 - 00:17:23.390

I have no recollection, please interacting with anybody. Okay. No, he didn't write remember. I didn't see him.

00:17:23.390 - 00:17:31.400

Okay. Because you remember when listed were rational? Questioning them. And what about that? You're going to summarize.

00:17:31.400 - 00:17:41.690

Remember where it was helpful. Alright, so what was the moment I got it raises your risk of regular law also detailing

00:17:41.690 - 00:17:55.880

with that, we exactly what you were doing. Stealing okay. From where we are up in the streets. Is this doing this?

00:17:55.880 - 00:18:07.600

Is this connected to the respondents said before, before, before then. This is the time I had reformed myself, but it was it was a nice guy by then.

00:18:07.600 - 00:18:13.940

Okay. And what did this stealing stuff went on before I was even then teenager. I don't know.

00:18:13.940 - 00:18:22.580

I think we'll see you in trouble. 12-years-old. I will set the first school, alright, third school for boys. I'm going to call it that now, right?

00:18:22.580 - 00:18:28.850

It's called something else but their schools to school. Yeah. They show you and still all

00:18:28.850 - 00:18:42.770

detention center and center. So I was there until 13. Then I went back again, 14. Getting in trouble.

00:18:42.770 - 00:18:52.430

So when you started getting involved and fight for social justice, where are you still engaged in criminal activity or had

00:18:52.430 - 00:19:02.360

you on when remarked? Reformed. Okay. And was it because of what you weren't the work you've been

00:19:02.360 - 00:19:10.790

doing with social justice, was that the reason why we call myself? But what does that a part of the yeah. And my mother wanted to

00:19:10.790 - 00:19:19.160

send her through that stress of dealing with me in trouble all the time. So that's why I stopped because it's an in

00:19:19.160 - 00:19:28.360

government terry cause of the National Guard. So we have this balances and we have fires, government cherry cause of the National Guard dead in the streets, running time.

00:19:28.360 - 00:19:37.850

Do you remember the national guards industry, so Wilmington, what does it look like? Could you describe it? Well, I've

00:19:37.850 - 00:19:52.240

never seen anything like it before. It just looked like military occupation. The city could ride around with their guns drawn and it moves.

00:19:52.240 - 00:20:02.960

But the fact that he was there for nine months was libraries in resentment in the community because of that.

00:20:02.960 - 00:20:11.250

So do you think that they were there riding around with Danish drawing to protect the citizens of those neighborhoods.

00:20:11.380 - 00:20:21.350

Protect its citizens, the ability within protect the business owners. I think he's I think Terry actually said that he was dead

00:20:21.350 - 00:20:29.030

in protecting the business owners, especially almost a Market Street because they were they were leaving. You are leaving.

00:20:29.030 - 00:20:37.850

So he wanted to prevent them from what I understand. You might miss some other things Going on that

00:20:37.850 - 00:20:44.410

I don't know because I don't know. I didn't know Governor Terry Riley, I spoke with him, but I'd be interested to know what it felt like.

00:20:44.410 - 00:20:50.010

Look like to you. You said it was thought that the occupation so what you imagined past four is

00:20:50.010 - 00:20:56.660

60 years now, 100 years sometime. No one knows what that military occupation look like. What did it look like to you?

00:20:56.660 - 00:21:09.530

Well know, like now. Now, when I look back at Ghana's Stan, looked like patrols like that. You see patrol the neck on TV in Afghanistan,

00:21:09.530 - 00:21:20.750

Syria, or something like that. Looks something like that. So as far as the people for the military, Run through the streets and

00:21:20.750 - 00:21:28.880

there was a curfew at a time. So not only were they industries now on they patrolling, there was a law that required the citizens of

00:21:28.880 - 00:21:40.190

those neighborhoods to be in the house by a certain time? It hasn't gotten a permit or something? Yeah. Obviously. All right.

00:21:40.190 - 00:21:46.310

Well, you can't go. If you were a slave, you do go certain places, but you couldn't go here unless you

00:21:46.310 - 00:21:52.660

had a permit, couldn't do. Sometimes they will be out of town. You couldn't go downtown unless you had a permit.

00:21:52.660 - 00:22:01.670

All right. So as an American, so it was we had to have a head-to-head we've come out, but we hadn't had reason to come out

00:22:01.670 - 00:22:06.410

and we had to have like a premium. Same we're going to work. Well, we've got to school or something like that.

00:22:06.410 - 00:22:14.930

And then we had so as an American citizen or resident in Wilmington, Delaware, in order to move out of

00:22:14.930 - 00:22:26.000

your house beyond a certain time, you had to carry a physical card, physical permit to be ready to show why you are not

00:22:26.000 - 00:22:39.200

in your home and in the United States, right? Everybody didn't have a car, so I did. I've learned that I was going for if you had a job

00:22:39.200 - 00:22:45.740

where you had to go to school and school suddenly? I can remember. Yeah. And actually I did that

00:22:45.740 - 00:22:54.810

confirms what other people have told me and what I've read all day. It was you couldn't simply get it to go visit a friend.

00:22:55.120 - 00:23:05.890

Goes with your girlfriend? Yeah. Yeah. So you had to have a permit to go to go to work. And I also understand that not everybody was even allowed,

00:23:05.890 - 00:23:16.010

even if you had a quote, unquote legitimate reason to have a permit, they will not be able to obtain those permits.

00:23:16.010 - 00:23:26.000

That sometimes it was favorites is certain people if you knew so somebody wasn't an easy thing to obtain? Using what I didn't know.

00:23:26.000 - 00:23:35.820

I didn't have one to know. I don't know anyone I did. I just know people saying that there was a lot of pre-made.

00:23:35.820 - 00:23:45.440

I never never had one, so I just go by what I heard. Do you remember how it felt? So you remember that you

00:23:45.440 - 00:23:50.630

describe it as an occupation and if you could describe the feelings, what did you feel? Tense. Do you feel like,

00:23:50.630 - 00:23:57.100

you know, it's not a big deal. What did it feel like? I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't know. People asked me that.

00:23:57.100 - 00:24:11.240

They asked me What was I thinking I was going to Market Street. Right. Right. Well, I don't want to remember how it felt.

00:24:11.240 - 00:24:28.370

Just felt. Well, this is as you use the word. Okay. Okay. That's helpful. So the nine months they were here and during that time,

00:24:28.370 - 00:24:38.660

the curfew was listed lifted by the City of Wilmington. The mayor lifted his shortly there after just I can others other cities

00:24:38.660 - 00:24:50.690

with things that quieted down. And the city government and merits of time employed Governor Terry to withdraw the troops,

00:24:50.690 - 00:25:02.540

so did the businesses. And he refused. He really believed that Wilmington was a hotbed of possible national insurrection.

00:25:02.540 - 00:25:10.730

He actually said that to the State Assembly and he refused. Even after that, even the businesses who and you're right.

00:25:10.730 - 00:25:20.240

There's beaches of him saying that he was doing this to protect to restore law and order. And even when law and order was restored,

00:25:20.240 - 00:25:33.110

he kept the stare and even when he lost the election in November, he kept the Truce. Truce. They're just even now looking back,

00:25:33.110 - 00:25:44.000

if you don't remember what you felt, then what are your thoughts about that? Yeah. Refusing and say, Well, I think it was more towards him

00:25:44.000 - 00:25:52.760

because he wasn't protecting businesses. Just say the businesses. We we we we already think

00:25:52.760 - 00:26:08.650

of some other things going on here. What do you think was going on for you? He was afraid, Governor Brian and his feelings of a person moving.

00:26:08.650 - 00:26:17.630

I don't think it was all about what he said. He must protect the business. It was the businesses that we're just telling people saying We don't

00:26:17.630 - 00:26:26.930

need you recall. Right. Right. So I think it was some other thing. So I think it was okay.

00:26:26.930 - 00:26:40.560

Me. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And he asked the mayor high school was I wanted to leave but they got it. I think narrows bark bark.

00:26:40.560 - 00:26:56.020

Yeah. Yeah. And then turn right, go on. Terrorist. Well, then after that, it was high school. And then Peterson replaced

00:26:56.020 - 00:27:09.360

Governor Terry governance, Harry Wright. And he actually Toy, toy with the idea of keeping troops just a little while longer when he was Peterson.

00:27:09.360 - 00:27:19.790

And it was the community organizers who said, If you do that, we will protest your inauguration. And when he realized that visual

00:27:19.790 - 00:27:27.110

was going to be foot in the news when you realized that That's not how he wanted to start his governorship when

00:27:27.110 - 00:27:35.910

he ran on a platform of hours. I will stand down and shoot. He walked over after inauguration. That was his first act as governor.

00:27:35.910 - 00:27:48.700

Signs or is there yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. But it came after he was pressured person. I just thought that was

00:27:48.700 - 00:28:06.680

kind of a toy that work. Yeah. It does demonstrate that it doesn't. So then the I was

00:28:06.680 - 00:28:14.560

wondering if just going back a little bit about the occupation. Do you tell me about your family? Were there do you have siblings, your age?

00:28:14.560 - 00:28:25.460

Was it who was a hassle was 62 brothers and two sisters? Uh-huh. Okay. And is it was it something do you

00:28:25.460 - 00:28:35.390

remember any in terms of your families interactions at this time, feelings at just how well your mother about the occupation or about

00:28:35.390 - 00:28:50.330

the assassination of king or stories you present anything about it. If he wasn't around me, was only one rebel. Freedom fighter.

00:28:50.330 - 00:28:59.800

Freedom fighter. And what what do you want people to know? Anything if you don't remember every detail or details about their time.

00:28:59.800 - 00:29:11.640

90 years from now. What do you want people to know about that time? Well, about that time.

00:29:15.460 - 00:29:26.100

But even as you sit here today and experienced what you experienced, knowing what you were what the movement was about with Dr. King,

00:29:26.100 - 00:29:35.550

you are part of the struggle. And now we sit 2018. Just your whole collection of your experiences to this moment.

00:29:35.550 - 00:29:45.780

Looking back on 1968, well, which one people didn't know 90 years? Well, probably the one I can think of right off the top of my head.

00:29:46.210 - 00:30:01.070

Those people, their margins. Yeah. That's just a small, small sense in that community that really good people connect to the lady.

00:30:01.070 - 00:30:11.540

The law abiding people to head with families. And they just want to eat rice. They were tired of being oppressed and brutalized

00:30:11.540 - 00:30:18.860

and taken for granted and discriminated against. And they were courageous. He took a lot to do with it,

00:30:18.860 - 00:30:23.660

what they were doing that because it took a lot of courage to carry. Why was this Hurry? Why would you say carriers?

00:30:23.660 - 00:30:32.640

What would they risking? Well, don't arise do with enriching, being shot in rescuing being DOB, risking being arrested.

00:30:32.640 - 00:30:41.480

Michigan being beaten. Just like the people down in the South when they had Martin Luther King, he's marches and be reversed a lot

00:30:41.480 - 00:30:47.750

and the rest of their lives down there to do that for, for us. Because what we did then and what they did in

00:30:47.750 - 00:30:55.670

the civil rights movement this out, it's benefiting us today. Another things that happened during his writing.

00:30:55.670 - 00:31:05.400

A lot of things, some things did change. Regards to housing. Discrimination got better, wasn't solved, but he got better.

00:31:05.740 - 00:31:14.720

They start hiring more Afro-American policeman on the force. The schools seem to be improved in the schools.

00:31:14.720 - 00:31:28.930

The part with tools and supplies. And so that was that there was a benefit of this protest here. Just to remember that these people,

00:31:28.930 - 00:31:35.930

you can hold the person down so alone. And that's why they want to fight back. That's why I said earlier, violences, way to start.

00:31:35.930 - 00:31:41.710

But if, you know, if people continue holding it down and keep it for the light to get Lafayette.

00:31:41.710 - 00:31:50.500

And sometimes it might be, it might take to defend yourself. People, people not unless somebody is abused woman views on

00:31:50.500 - 00:32:02.000

basically remotely or whatever. But that'll fighting back eventually. Freedom fighters at the end of the day, everyday clothes,

00:32:02.000 - 00:32:22.650

these are things people right here in front of 17, 18, 19 years old. When there is people who say that we had enough

00:32:22.650 - 00:32:31.400

cross it across the country, across the world. Whatever revolutionary has been. 90% of the time it is

00:32:31.400 - 00:32:39.800

young people that take up the trash and had the courage. Ella Baker, who is the Executive Director of

00:32:39.800 - 00:32:47.930

the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. And the Dr. came with the face of new. She was famous for saying, I believe young people come

00:32:47.930 - 00:32:55.280

first because they had the courage where we fail in the back your sound and lighter than on them carriers. Do the girls speaking to

00:32:55.280 - 00:33:01.190

what you just said that they have the courage they had the courage to take up the fight and to take up the charge.

00:33:01.190 - 00:33:08.690

And so 90 years from now when they are talking about Wilmington and as you said, like the occupation, these are

00:33:08.690 - 00:33:19.390

the faces of the freedom fighters. How they look. I don't think any of them around school yet. All of them all of them were teenagers.

00:33:19.390 - 00:33:27.830

This was in April, so I was getting ready to graduate high school. Two months later in June I graduate. What is this a picture?

00:33:27.830 - 00:33:39.890

What does this have named? This black man near car was well, they were Philly, I don't think they were original black panther members

00:33:39.890 - 00:33:47.740

but associated with it. Yeah. I don't know exactly what they were doing there. But that's over easily.

00:33:47.740 - 00:33:58.360

You were saying, I think there's a place called Jerry. Jerry. Jerry. Jerry, How could you describe it gives us

00:33:58.360 - 00:34:11.330

a physical toll over South Bridge? No. I'm not sure what's your Allen is. Okay. No worries. Yes. On the north side

00:34:11.330 - 00:34:19.460

of the covenant principle governing prints out erin. Okay. Okay. Alright, groups. And some of the names on here

00:34:19.460 - 00:34:30.740

is William Robertson, Warren mode, Barry Allen, james Barber, merit. Because it reminds me of something else.

00:34:30.740 - 00:34:38.400

So back then, I didn't talk about the contingency or chapter Black Panther and Wilmington during this time.

00:34:38.400 - 00:34:45.230

You heard it or black and he blacks. You tell me about the black, the black. I'll do a demo. I loved getting the accident back.

00:34:45.230 - 00:34:55.610

And Becky blacks were a group of guys that was from the Valley area where those rights inscribed with Valley. West side, right side.

00:34:55.610 - 00:35:03.380

In which the lower part of the West side, there's a hilltop up on a hill, Broom street, great street, right as the hilltop.

00:35:03.380 - 00:35:14.490

A massive street, Monroe, Jefferson, Nesbitt valley floor, west side. That was where I was in the bathroom. Blackstone Valley. You remember about them?

00:35:14.860 - 00:35:27.260

Well, we're leaving a little gap. Small game. Now. Not heard they did it. They weren't, lot of them were

00:35:27.260 - 00:35:34.940

involved in being a part of the uprising or some destruction also heard that they should do things, even if they just do things

00:35:34.940 - 00:35:47.990

like similar to the Black Panther movement, has food for breakfast and food available and that sort of thing. So charitable?

00:35:47.990 - 00:35:57.670

Yeah. Alright. You remember the other the other game, I think what they were doing, a Blackhawks, south,

00:35:57.670 - 00:36:09.410

southwest sort of arrivals. Know how much of it? Okay. Not that I know. Okay. Got it.

00:36:09.410 - 00:36:26.510

But I don't have any. Okay. Remember him as a gay. Okay. But you remember that bracket back to a regular game that I was describing?

00:36:26.510 - 00:36:33.560

Just in the West side. Nice. It was in our area. Okay. So you went to probably back in the vaccine with fighter but

00:36:33.560 - 00:36:58.830

due west side by side, gaining new column. All right. Downtown where light affiliates. Secondly, Popper, third unpopular. Anyway. They were affiliated with us.

00:36:58.830 - 00:37:06.290

He said, Well, sticking it in popularity through unpopular around the annuity. We really well with

00:37:06.290 - 00:37:19.730

Lee will hang out together. What we waste time we go there. We were more closely associated as a gang. Lacking blacks was just

00:37:19.730 - 00:37:32.120

happened to be in our area. And they had a little guys but they weren't really has organized not billing agent

00:37:32.120 - 00:37:50.760

where you apart the west side. What we're dead time is it before, remember sending out 19 then? That was before before the syllabus by 78.

00:37:53.440 - 00:38:02.730

So you said you mentioned something about Hawkes. Yeah. I meant there was a gain on it on a hilltop, klutzy Hawkes.

00:38:05.020 - 00:38:17.220

Ok. So many games would just gains in and getting involved in too much activity. Had a group of guys together, they might get a once in a while.

00:38:17.220 - 00:38:35.090

Too late. The two main gaze at that time was the west side. Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew. Okay. Alright. Alright. So this

00:38:35.090 - 00:38:47.850

is the area described as telling me again, Jerry. Jerry, All in all we know, are these guys easily riverside that way?

00:38:50.950 - 00:39:05.660

One of them one of them Barbara boys? Yeah. It was either him or his brother. They were thinking awol from the military. Okay. Is it wasn't doing the Vietnam War,

00:39:05.660 - 00:39:14.570

but after, remember, it was the FBI came to the sounds of wrestling and those guys,

00:39:14.570 - 00:39:31.970

some of them right there to jump on a federal prison. Okay. That's really important. History. 1967, right, folder 97. Okay.

00:39:31.970 - 00:39:40.430

And I think the importance of that incident called Cherry Island and say that not only were they targeting these local gangs,

00:39:40.430 - 00:39:47.950

but I think they use that as a cause to also go after services organization lipid, WY EAC, whack,

00:39:47.950 - 00:39:56.870

were supposedly hadn't been supporting, write these radical black activism movements and use that as an excuse

00:39:56.870 - 00:40:04.160

that we add a graph that other groups, I think that's one reason. Another reason is due to the business and then another one we're going to

00:40:04.160 - 00:40:15.770

use the military gear to see cuz cuz I think there's something else on them. And these papers have just

00:40:15.770 - 00:40:28.650

recently been declassified that the federal government and the FBI had an entire intelligence program called COINTELPRO

00:40:28.650 - 00:40:38.340

counterintelligence program. And one of the major missions was to disband any organized effort by African Americans

00:40:38.340 - 00:40:57.090

into the language of AI to eliminate the black messiah is such as Dr. King. Do. I do here?

00:40:57.090 - 00:41:05.380

Okay. Alright, so I'll make sure we didn't miss anything. Is anything else you want to share about their time?

00:41:05.380 - 00:41:13.720

And I'd like to imagine some time because I love and I'm reading history of hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

00:41:13.720 - 00:41:21.470

Now is imagine if I would say if I could sit across from humans, people in my family and I come back and sit across from and I fill in the brain.

00:41:21.470 - 00:41:27.470

And so in some ways, members of your family going to be 100 years now. So like sitting across from you because they're going to be

00:41:27.470 - 00:41:40.490

listening to 100 years in terms of your voice and rebuild me, write in terms of your voice, they will be, as I live in perpetuity,

00:41:40.490 - 00:41:46.630

they will be sitting across from you and they're like, Wow, okay, that's cool. Great grandpa Trenton Perkins.

00:41:46.630 - 00:41:56.000

What does he have to say about Wilmington, Delaware, and 1960s? What would you say that listening. Listening. What's the question?

00:41:56.000 - 00:42:04.160

So fast forward, 100 years from now, some extension of your family, you know, maybe still living in Wilmington, Delaware,

00:42:04.160 - 00:42:14.770

wants to know what your experience was like and Wilmington, Delaware, your collective experience during the 19th, the mid to late 1960s.

00:42:14.770 - 00:42:28.490

This one was how would you want to know then? They won't they won't really notice those papers from Governor Terry. They won't read.

00:42:28.490 - 00:42:35.930

Well, in spite of all this, in spite of the riots and all that, I just wanted to go, dads and good friends.

00:42:35.930 - 00:42:50.460

We got trouble together. We'd be not nice things together. Even in school. I had finished school. I worked Guards Army been where we go.

00:42:50.460 - 00:43:01.610

Too much funding school. Just barely got out. Rather than limited time. There's a bit of time, but some good people here.

00:43:01.610 - 00:43:15.480

Yes, it could be e-mail counselors and teachers, and they taught me a lot when we were really young.

00:43:15.480 - 00:43:33.260

So mental, instrumental, my upbringing. I pull up this picture of you and you know, I guess it's not fact, it's the personal authority, right.

00:43:33.260 - 00:43:43.260

This might be a police officer. I'm not sure it's in the forefront, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I'm looking at

00:43:43.260 - 00:43:50.290

the expression on his brother's face and you behind him, he's talking about good people and freedom fighters taken to the streets.

00:43:50.290 - 00:44:00.570

There's a lot of people who went to thank you for the work that you did and thank you for the risk and with others you do.

00:44:01.540 - 00:44:12.650

The boat right here. This gene here, Jane Hammond genome. It was still, I know you haven't was like a lot

00:44:12.650 - 00:44:22.580

of other guys like whirlwind, I'm sorry. Highly intelligent, skilled. He could have been. He could have been

00:44:22.580 - 00:44:31.820

a great motivational speaker. He could have been up there. I'm not gonna say he would've been a bit with Brock a moment where

00:44:31.820 - 00:44:43.780

he could have been addressed exactly. And it will sharpen smart, passionate about the cause. And when he came out,

00:44:43.780 - 00:44:52.640

we had been known each other for years, but when he came out, when this thing is thinking about, I didn't know where he was

00:44:52.640 - 00:45:01.430

because he started talking about on another level because, you know, oh, I see. You saw him rise up and moving them together.

00:45:01.430 - 00:45:08.150

You would get all kinds of stuff together, you know. And then all of a sudden he started speaking in front of

00:45:08.150 - 00:45:20.760

people rather than ever from somebody you know, in the community in use on him grow every day.

00:45:20.760 - 00:45:29.360

And he, he added he was intelligent and their oratory skills and motivate people to go out and make a difference. And its community.

00:45:29.360 - 00:45:44.510

Some people in that picture there, right here, which one? Falling to the left? Remember his name? Charles beds are thinking

00:45:44.510 - 00:45:56.840

name is Charles Benson. You could do any kind of dance. I ended it on my street names and Bartok. I mean, you show him

00:45:56.840 - 00:46:05.970

some stairs by spreading to heal, study for a couple of minutes, you'll practice it a little bit. Then after that he got towns and he got it.

00:46:05.970 - 00:46:28.610

It could be any cut all the way to David's office as a council. Years later, what kind of Dwight Davis? Davis. That guy in backward and just

00:46:28.610 - 00:46:52.370

listen for white people. They put out these I hear anyway, he sees, he asked his name, but he's a half and I get that kind

00:46:52.370 - 00:47:02.390

of backtrack because it gives, it humanizes this picture. It was awesome. Young people. When I was coming up for

00:47:02.390 - 00:47:11.720

a school, I was 12-years-old. Most of the pupil in my good morning colleagues who've been 12, 13. There was a guy

00:47:11.720 - 00:47:21.530

there anything, Larry Simpson. He was still talking about dimming stars in the plaintiffs up 13, 40 years old, started talking to me,

00:47:21.530 - 00:47:30.680

not even all that stuff. I'll always say when I was in practice and why this guy's a genius van. 13, 14 years, he starts talking

00:47:30.680 - 00:47:42.500

about how far the Sun was when the Earth, jupiter, Sputnik. That's really helpful. So oftentimes, people just wanted to throw

00:47:42.500 - 00:47:48.190

firstly young people away and they think they have no gifts and handle the towns when you get into an institution like Ferris,

00:47:48.190 - 00:47:56.330

right into the urine. Sorry, there was another guy. He wasn't it for a school with matches met him on the west side.

00:47:56.330 - 00:48:05.240

Money-wise, lighting wise, and a vocabulary that I used to love me. I wish I could tall and he was only like 15, 16 years old.

00:48:05.240 - 00:48:16.440

And he can express himself. It was so cool. And onwards and out of their enlightened man, he'd made a record.

00:48:16.440 - 00:48:28.730

He made a record before he was 18 years old. It was on WDS, these divs and other guy William highest was a three-way athlete,

00:48:28.730 - 00:48:38.150

sports football and track and was good at all. Yeah. Talents, you don't tell,

00:48:38.150 - 00:48:43.070

they just didn't have a guidance and had mentors. Alright? Alright. And then neighborhoods experience.

00:48:43.070 - 00:48:52.970

And as you said, you know, I will question it was less than this kind of frustration and rage. Mr. Clinton. Thank you so much. Thank you.

00:48:52.970 - 00:49:06.120

And this is really ethically it is valuable to me. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Anything else? Ask a question.

00:49:08.080 - 00:49:18.760

Yeah. Is there why has your involvement? They say ca arriving at the July, just kinda get an order by, you know,

00:49:18.760 - 00:49:32.310

your biological sense of when you're 18 and on this year, 50th anniversary happened and you've seen all these pictures and I didn't know.

00:49:32.310 - 00:49:40.340

It was two people. I saw it in combat and they put it like every five years, right? Yeah. So rapid that people

00:49:40.340 - 00:49:50.720

sometimes and I just felt like because I never thought of it. And people would call me up sometimes they saw

00:49:50.720 - 00:50:00.320

it may be that you present payment. But I never really had never really impacted me IntelliJ here. I guess causing the 50th anniversary

00:50:00.320 - 00:50:11.210

in good, Really. You know, one thing it makes you feel good is I think, I don't know, I haven't

00:50:11.210 - 00:50:20.280

done any real research. I haven't done anything like that. But I think that picture which one? That one. But that one.

00:50:20.280 - 00:50:26.200

I'm saying that picture was in the news journal more than any other picture in the history of the new journal?

00:50:26.200 - 00:50:36.980

That's my guess. Only because it's in at least every five years. Sometimes before five years is about Lolita about world events, right?

00:50:36.980 - 00:50:44.300

Yes. Let me about one-third again, every year when you go around the assassination wilted event. My guess is, like I said,

00:50:44.300 - 00:50:51.770

I haven't researched it. That picture right there. It's in the new journal morning picture, history.

00:50:51.770 - 00:50:59.450

Actually about that. I wanted to ask you if you don't mind, please. So up until this year though,

00:50:59.450 - 00:51:08.120

most famous photograph of March, it's a slightly different one actually. It's it's it's a one frame right after another.

00:51:08.120 - 00:51:26.140

That one one way or the one where everyone, everyone seems there is no variance. So your friend here, he looks really angry.

00:51:26.140 - 00:51:38.360

Which one? Your friend or four note in the foreground? I know not, but what I'm saying is that yeah. So it's only need this year that will

00:51:38.360 - 00:51:49.570

decided that actually this photo and your friend that that's cut off. It's cut off here, then adds a variety of people's emotions feeling your right

00:51:49.570 - 00:51:54.330

to change because I saw that and some other pictures? Yes. Because they have different expressions on it.

00:51:54.330 - 00:52:00.490

But it's the same picture. But is it from shock coma, I guess it's ever had one general frame, right?

00:52:00.490 - 00:52:09.020

Yeah. You're right. It was one of them. You can look over here, you can see a truck parked over here. Draw your friend is exactly on that one.

00:52:09.020 - 00:52:22.640

So I don't know anything about that shift perhaps like as opposed to this uniformly angry facial expressions? I saw this guy that's got

00:52:22.640 - 00:52:31.180

all he's over here if you see him. Because the thing is that they use this picture to describe the rise. But again, this is not,

00:52:31.180 - 00:52:42.060

this is not a pitch. I'm going to write. So when I was researching this in 2000 I mean, last year. When you go in 1916, Wilmington.

00:52:42.060 - 00:52:48.380

It was the other frame that showed up. Yeah. That's been used for years. Yeah. Right now, when we're putting

00:52:48.380 - 00:52:58.150

together their new website, we saw this frame right after that. Whenever you want a website yet does your friend or dancer is laughing.

00:52:58.150 - 00:53:08.540

Their friend on the other corner is looking cross smile, right? Way to peace round. This picture is it didn't take

00:53:08.540 - 00:53:18.410

him to depict, right? Vitamins. They're absolute value square. Please rise. And that's very subtle stuff

00:53:18.410 - 00:53:35.430

that we did, right? Exactly. Yes. Okay. Yes. My interests. I just moved here

00:53:35.430 - 00:53:45.030

or should we wrap it up officially? Alright. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just going to kill them. Guilty.