00:00:00.000 - 00:00:08.580

Yeah, he dove on the west side and he got we got a chance to talk to him and he got to identify some folks in

00:00:08.580 - 00:00:20.300

that picture so that everybody in the frontline of them, he was able to, you know, any of those. Alright.

00:00:20.300 - 00:00:27.290

So you're recording, alright. You should stop when you're done, okay? Okay, um, and I should be around so I write so much

00:00:27.290 - 00:01:03.120

and thanks, Mika know? Okay. Yeah, okay. Just start really brightly

00:01:03.120 - 00:01:10.610

before getting into what happened, mainly found in King's assassination. I like some background. If you didn't tell us.

00:01:10.610 - 00:01:17.150

When you came to Wilmington, were you born and raised here? I wish her relationship to work mentoring just

00:01:17.150 - 00:01:28.180

prior to when I was born and raised in Washington, I was born in St. Francis Hospital. And so I tend to lower elementary school,

00:01:28.180 - 00:01:39.550

Barton middle school, warmed in high school. Okay. So in 1968, will just before I want to go a few years before that,

00:01:39.550 - 00:01:53.930

it turns as King's legacy and King's life. How does it intersect with yours? Where you how did you come to be aware of his work or him or the movement?

00:01:53.930 - 00:02:09.960

Well, fortunately or unfortunately, depending upon one's perspective, awful tell I was a conference on nobody would babysit.

00:02:10.180 - 00:02:26.690

My mother was very active in community affairs and very active in NWA CP. And basically as punishment. I can hear my father now taking with you.

00:02:26.690 - 00:02:37.160

You may not recognize him when you come back if you've been here. So I ended up being at NWA CP meetings as

00:02:37.160 - 00:02:50.570

a child and I'm just there plain. Supposedly, but there came points in times when I recognize the seriousness of what

00:02:50.570 - 00:03:01.770

they were talking about. It at times it was fun to see the adults watch the adults arguing and strategizing.

00:03:02.460 - 00:03:11.770

As a result of that. I mean, that's really been the genesis of my career. As a child. Not that I was

00:03:11.770 - 00:03:18.520

a participant or that I was active. I was just as bad little boy over in the corner. But I was able to be in

00:03:18.520 - 00:03:30.970

the strategy room with new reading and rather more you, Michal and my uncles, the quarter. So that was really the beginning

00:03:30.970 - 00:03:46.790

of my involvement with civil rights. And for whatever reason, obviously wrong reasons. But I was able to see things and

00:03:46.790 - 00:03:55.640

begin to understand things and be around people at a very early age, which in long run has been extremely beneficial for me in

00:03:55.640 - 00:04:07.280

my career and my efforts to be a leader in this community. So you're in a room because to keep you busy, to keep you out of trouble,

00:04:07.280 - 00:04:18.260

and keep daddy from doing whatever it is. Recognize you when you get home, correct. I gotcha. I gotcha. When did you did you become into a level of

00:04:18.260 - 00:04:27.840

consciousness where you understood what was going on in Iran and wanted to be involved? Probably around age 12.13

00:04:28.810 - 00:04:42.500

because I had a major disagreement with my father, but some clothes he brought me and he said if I didn't like what,

00:04:42.500 - 00:04:54.140

he brought me, go buy my own clothes. So I've got my little wagon and started delivering groceries for people in I started

00:04:54.140 - 00:05:01.940

cutting grass and hasn't been a day since we had that conversation that I have made some money from somewhere. So when I was about 12 or 13,

00:05:01.940 - 00:05:13.700

I actually brought my own NWA CP membership. So I've been I'm a life member now, of course, but as a child,

00:05:13.700 - 00:05:28.310

I recall buying my first NWA CP membership. And so do you remember the March on Washington, 1963? Do you remember that?

00:05:28.310 - 00:05:40.580

I was there. Everybody in your family was there? A bind and family went to the march except for the children under 12.

00:05:40.580 - 00:05:50.990

And nobody wanted me nobody wanted to be responsible for me, but my older cousin, who was from Baltimore and

00:05:50.990 - 00:05:59.120

so he kept the kids. But I watched it on TV. And of course I'm sitting there watching on TV and try and

00:05:59.120 - 00:06:12.830

look for my parents and my brother and my older cousin who I loved dearly miss was singing mother-in-law all day long.

00:06:12.830 - 00:06:26.060

Just come out. And I remember that day distinctly because in my house it wasn't a choice of whether or

00:06:26.060 - 00:06:34.970

not we were going to go. It was when are we going to go, where are we going to stay? And as a child,

00:06:34.970 - 00:06:40.310

I honestly thought and people don't believe this, but I honestly thought the way my mother was in the way

00:06:40.310 - 00:06:47.360

my uncle Luther was that I thought it was against the law. Miss NWA CP meet because everything was centered

00:06:47.360 - 00:06:55.010

around the end of LACP mean, my uncle went to all the national conferences and his vacation was scheduled

00:06:55.010 - 00:07:06.080

around the National Conference. It was he had to be there. So when a day you're watching for your your parents and

00:07:06.080 - 00:07:15.740

your relatives in the crowd. What are you feeling? And secondly, why did you feel at that time in

00:07:15.740 - 00:07:23.990

your life that it was important beyond that? Oh, my family is connected to this organization. Was it clear to you what the reasons

00:07:23.990 - 00:07:37.070

why they were there and what they were trying to do to change. Oh, it was crystal clear. Number one. And by the time I was in sixth grade,

00:07:37.070 - 00:07:47.630

teacher called me the n-word in the classroom at almost gotten far as a result of because mom was so active and she was

00:07:47.630 - 00:07:57.530

the first African American president of what was in the woman home school community council. But they had this big meeting

00:07:57.530 - 00:08:06.390

and I think she was pretty much going to be fired. Again. I'm in sixth grade when I'm this little kid over in the corner,

00:08:06.390 - 00:08:17.090

like I'm not listening to you all. And my father was a mailman and after a byte talked, he was sitting there in his military uniform.

00:08:17.090 - 00:08:27.050

He said, Well, she did was wrong. What she said was wrong. That's my son and I love him dearly. But I'm telling you right now that

00:08:27.050 - 00:08:38.870

boy could make Jesus costs. So you all just do what you want to do. I'm just telling you how it is. So that was one.

00:08:38.870 - 00:08:49.400

More importantly, I had two parents with government job. My mother was a social worker. My father was a mailman,

00:08:49.400 - 00:09:00.020

and they thought it was their duty and obligation to take us on vacation every summer. Well, prior to the Civil Rights Act,

00:09:00.020 - 00:09:09.760

if you can't stay everywhere, you can't. You've got a plan. Who you're going to stay with when you when you're traveling.

00:09:09.760 - 00:09:22.910

Because you couldn't stay with where you couldn't eat everywhere. The D that experienced by itself. And then right after

00:09:22.910 - 00:09:31.520

the Civil Rights Act passed, they decided we're going to go on vacation when all the way down in Stanton,

00:09:31.520 - 00:09:47.780

Virginia and in West Virginia came back and stopped right outside of Baltimore. And my sister needed to use the restroom. Man refused to let her use the restroom.

00:09:47.780 - 00:10:01.400

She had to go out in the back over fence. My father was limited and told him and said that it was S0, which is exon now Esso Company did dance,

00:10:01.400 - 00:10:12.110

they will SO company is going hear about it. And he said he didn't give a damn about the Esso Company and why we were there car for my wife pulled

00:10:12.110 - 00:10:23.190

up and they let those children use a restaurant. Now, my father was really vivid, but we came home.

00:10:23.190 - 00:10:43.040

And NWA CP called a meeting at the house and When the gentleman came in and happened to be African American from SO boat tenant,

00:10:43.040 - 00:10:57.620

ten credit cards got thrown into the floor and easy win around the room. My uncle was a Dr. Dr. Porter, had another uncle who was a math teacher.

00:10:57.620 - 00:11:06.330

My mother was a social worker, and my father was sitting on the steps. And bad time to me, I got them say, Well, Mr. street, are you a lawyer?

00:11:06.330 - 00:11:14.940

Dad? He never answered me. Daddy was a mailman. End of the day a month later, that gas station closed.

00:11:19.660 - 00:11:29.960

So April we we I mean, we went down there to see you at all boarded up. Did you go see all right.

00:11:29.960 - 00:11:41.430

All right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Wow. So fast forward to April 1968,

00:11:41.430 - 00:11:54.820

Dr. King is slaughtered, murdered. Were where are you? Do you remember? I actually don't remember where I was.

00:11:54.820 - 00:12:08.720

I just remember how awful it was. And somehow my my recollection gets blurred about the date and the time when I first found it out.

00:12:08.720 - 00:12:22.940

But the day afterwards or maybe the second day, my parents had taken us somewhere. And I remember pulling

00:12:22.940 - 00:12:34.130

up to the houses maybe eight 09:00 at night. And we need to cross street from bar school. And the National Guard had taken over bar school?

00:12:34.130 - 00:12:51.590

I remember that. I remember being in school. I don't remember being in school. I remember meeting at Wilmington high. And the plan was that we want to have

00:12:51.590 - 00:13:04.970

a peaceful demonstration and going walk from the three high schools and meet it Rodney square. So we're going to walk from warm to

00:13:04.970 - 00:13:14.630

hot or Rodney square root of PS to Rodney square from how? The Rodney square. And I honestly don't recall if

00:13:14.630 - 00:13:25.720

from dealer water Rodney square knot, but I think it was included. I really don't remember what I do remember being

00:13:25.720 - 00:13:38.240

in the demonstration with my wife now, my girlfriend at the time. We got to fourth in market with marshal all way down for

00:13:38.240 - 00:13:49.580

street and somebody threw a brick through, was in L&D sporting goods window and all hell broke loose. So we never made it to

00:13:49.580 - 00:14:00.980

Rodney square and started up market street. And I look, people will come and down the street with racks and close. And now my attention had to turn her getting

00:14:00.980 - 00:14:11.600

her home back and she lived at third and Cleveland avenues getting her home. And then once I got her home,

00:14:11.600 - 00:14:23.060

I went straight to the corner third and Clayton, and we had great discussion then. Actually had a good old time.

00:14:23.060 - 00:14:32.060

And how did you feel what you felt like that there you can Clayton that day? Well, here again, I'm still not a model of

00:14:32.060 - 00:14:42.750

Charles, so, you know, there had been a lot of entrances into the liquor store and there was a lot of liquor on the corner.

00:14:42.750 - 00:14:54.710

And I think that night we solved all the problems of the world. But I also remember because I had this affinity

00:14:54.710 - 00:15:01.800

for the wisdom of older people solved two older brothers that were on the corner. Somebody said, Well, let's go

00:15:01.800 - 00:15:13.660

burn down Lou Italy. And all but two or three people left. And I'm standing there with the guy who in view of some actually ran the corner.

00:15:13.660 - 00:15:21.830

And he looked at me, see, I'm who I knew you had Glisson's. There'll be back and it won't be long. And about 10 min later,

00:15:21.830 - 00:15:29.090

people come running down the street from both indices. They go, Oh man, up there on the rooftop with machine guns.

00:15:29.090 - 00:15:44.180

And So the whole aspect of burned down Italy dead, what happened? And somehow or another, the residents,

00:15:44.180 - 00:15:56.990

obviously people who had had some experience with military, were concerned and prepare because there were people on rooftops with machine guns.

00:15:56.990 - 00:16:06.670

Now, I heard that from Keith Smith and Bob, can you say no, I didn't make it up, right? Yeah. I heard that. I heard some people

00:16:06.670 - 00:16:17.090

actually got caught up in that night and had to be rescued by please note, I have not. Everybody made it back to

00:16:17.090 - 00:16:28.910

the corner that night. Did you remembering it and that you remember? The beginning of the conversation? Wasn't I wasn't in

00:16:28.910 - 00:16:37.100

shape to remember anything but the running. I do remember that part of it. That's right. You're solving a problem that or where

00:16:37.100 - 00:16:50.640

I remember now. Yeah. But I have never heard that until the day. It was my understanding of limited because I didn't go.

00:16:50.640 - 00:17:04.080

I knew better by ran back everybody that I saw little corner came back. So whatever else may have happened.

00:17:04.080 - 00:17:14.540

I'm not familiar with that. Okay. Did you remember any do you remember any encounters directly with the National Guard in terms of

00:17:14.540 - 00:17:25.730

how they interacted with the residents? When they were oh, yeah. And I had to wait because actually when when Dr. King was

00:17:25.730 - 00:17:39.120

assassinated, I was 15. My birthday was in November. Then I got my license and has some negative experiences

00:17:39.120 - 00:17:50.190

being stopped basically for no reason. And when we got because you stopped by the police and it was a National Guard.

00:17:50.710 - 00:17:59.840

The state police followed by the National Guard. State police pulls over. Well, while you pulls over,

00:17:59.840 - 00:18:11.090

maybes cozy hat, well, why did it in you better do this, you better not do that, so forth and so on.

00:18:11.090 - 00:18:21.450

And of course, I went home and told elders complaint. There were meetings about there was a complaint file,

00:18:21.450 - 00:18:34.700

nothing was done about it, but then Governor Terry and LACP meetings became the issue. And I was privileged to be in

00:18:34.700 - 00:18:46.460

the room when they were strategizing demonstration wise and publicly, how are they going to take him out? And they did NWA CP

00:18:46.460 - 00:18:52.220

means they were strategizing how to give it a Governor Terry? Correct. All right. Will be the strategy for

00:18:52.220 - 00:19:00.030

getting him out of office. Office? Well, it was a matter of registering and voting, it was a matter of complaining.

00:19:00.030 - 00:19:10.360

And it was a matter of being confrontational. And I watched him do all that. What does it being compensation and look like?

00:19:10.360 - 00:19:20.570

How did it manifest? Well, confrontational in that error was to attend the meeting. Be assertive, be

00:19:20.570 - 00:19:33.710

aggressive to do demonstration. And people in leadership positions such as Roosevelt Franklin, were very aggressive in

00:19:33.710 - 00:19:42.530

terms of saying what was, was not acceptable and letting folks know that they were just making a bad situation

00:19:42.530 - 00:19:52.770

worse by inference and then you end. Well, I couldn't hear. It was about now you sitting on a powder keg. And sometimes the response was,

00:19:52.770 - 00:20:02.600

Oh, what can we do? What we can do? Sometimes I was in a meeting where I wasn't at the meeting. Legend has it about to

00:20:02.600 - 00:20:16.550

meet my father's version or the story was Mr. friends, that you boys sitting on a powder keg and numeracy,

00:20:16.550 - 00:20:28.880

we'll let her Flickr. So that was the mayor's effort. I'm sure to shut Roosevelt down and basically say,

00:20:28.880 - 00:20:42.430

you knock on, threatened me. But that was Roosevelt's strategy. And then you had all those who were very articulate and

00:20:42.430 - 00:20:53.040

less confrontational and of course, in the wings or present dependent upon the strategy. Mr. reading was there.

00:20:53.170 - 00:21:04.260

They knew full well that they were looking at potential mitigation anytime he showed up or they mentioned his name. Louis riding turn.

00:21:04.930 - 00:21:14.870

There started to be pressure on Governor Terry shows in some of the letters that he received from the residents and some of

00:21:14.870 - 00:21:23.870

the editorials that were written in response to those things, those in favor he would write back and say, you know,

00:21:23.870 - 00:21:34.300

they would thank him for for holding the line of law and order. And then those who posed to him, he would indicate that

00:21:34.300 - 00:21:42.720

you are in the minority. Right? And then I will make those rabble rousers, all those things pertaining there too.

00:21:42.910 - 00:21:58.930

And that was, I mean, is from my perspective now, he really didn't care about the African American community.

00:21:58.930 - 00:22:08.510

He didn't care about the unfairness that was being protested. He was only concerned about the business owners in

00:22:08.510 - 00:22:13.030

the downtown companies and as long as they were happy and satisfied and they weren't being arrest,

00:22:13.030 - 00:22:22.780

nobody was stabbing them going back and forth to work. But the young African American wearing red, green and black on the street,

00:22:22.780 - 00:22:33.740

we were the targets. And it was actually crazy because there weren't many people involved in rides and

00:22:33.740 - 00:22:43.540

there weren't that many people in bobbed and burning. And it started out with the fully legitimate intention

00:22:43.540 - 00:22:54.600

of being a peaceful demonstration. Now, you mentioned them stopping in the streets. There had to be

00:22:54.600 - 00:23:04.940

a required pass, understand it. It was a curfew enacted and you had to have a pass to be out past curfew and you will get stopped.

00:23:04.940 - 00:23:17.290

Do you remember how that pass was acquired and whether their past was given out? The policy was applied fairly, honestly, do not know.

00:23:17.290 - 00:23:27.090

I didn't get a pass. And I knew my father was not playing around that. And so me being out past

00:23:27.090 - 00:23:40.290

curfew was not going to be an issue on my house. Gases dancer. And especially because I got my license now.

00:23:40.290 - 00:23:53.010

And the response in terms of being physical and being aggressive, gave me your license in my keys. Yeah.

00:23:53.010 - 00:24:03.200

That was that was a winner every time. You didn't need a curve utilizes Markey. I got it. So I didn't need to pay us.

00:24:03.200 - 00:24:12.530

Hi guys. Are always going to be home on time. Now, some folks did not, when they didn't have the past,

00:24:12.530 - 00:24:23.660

they went out anyway. There are some groups. Can you tell me about the black lead blacks? I was not active in black he blacks.

00:24:23.660 - 00:24:37.360

But I still have a trophy home. I played softball for blocky blacks. But blacks, blacks who was active. They were aggressive.

00:24:37.360 - 00:24:50.270

And I think they play a critical role in working with hicks Anderson and other adult leaders.

00:24:50.610 - 00:25:02.540

In number one, bringing some resolution to what was going on in alpha blacker, black snaffle. Weird. Not for exams

00:25:02.540 - 00:25:08.180

and not for Helen Chambers. There wouldn't be a weird mix Anderson Center on Madison Street. There wouldn't be

00:25:08.180 - 00:25:17.670

a western or daycare center. He own Madison Street, then it wouldn't be a Helen Chambers pork. Those things are still in place today.

00:25:17.980 - 00:25:31.220

And as the current mayor says, he's gone revitalize, restore West Center City. There are those of us who

00:25:31.220 - 00:25:41.800

hexanes and said to us at the time he was one of my, one of my mentors. We got it. But saying for us,

00:25:41.800 - 00:25:53.900

the intention is to expand downtown. Everybody out in that community center with that swimming pool net daycare center is for white people, not us.

00:25:53.900 - 00:26:02.140

And you all had to fight like hell to keep it. And he was speaking those words. And what year?

00:26:02.140 - 00:26:12.750

Early 70s. Soon as we got it, Whenever it hits Anderson Center, which was dedicated. And so those of us who were there,

00:26:12.750 - 00:26:26.160

we remember that distinctly and NAM now me being an elected official represents net area. I think about that all the time

00:26:26.160 - 00:26:35.960

and I haven't publicly challenging yet, but we've had some discussions. And to the extent that anybody has that in mind,

00:26:35.960 - 00:26:43.370

it's not going to happen without a fight. And so suddenly say directly rectally way you just described and sound like they were community

00:26:43.370 - 00:26:56.660

advocating for the community. Other people will come a violent gang. How would you answer that? Well, they were advocating for people,

00:26:57.030 - 00:27:10.940

but they were aggressive and assertive. They weren't closed my time for peaceful demonstrations and basically begging and pleading was overruled.

00:27:10.940 - 00:27:23.650

We're not pleading and asking anymore with demand. And so by, by the static, by the system embody elders.

00:27:23.650 - 00:27:33.840

They were out of control. But the progress that was made would not have happened without that. And they will points were there.

00:27:33.840 - 00:27:52.640

They actually strategy may between the elders who got more respect from, from, from the system and the people in charge.

00:27:52.640 - 00:28:01.100

But there were strategy between the younger people and older people as to how they were going go about

00:28:01.100 - 00:28:16.120

trying to do this collectively. And best example I can tell you is that I finished in my finishing university in 1974 by December.

00:28:16.120 - 00:28:28.350

Things in May of 1974 by December, I was involved with a woman home school community council in helping to prepare

00:28:29.050 - 00:28:43.310

city parents for school desegregation, has school board meeting and strategy was this person was going be on as side screaming and yelling.

00:28:43.310 - 00:28:55.310

And when he finished screaming and yelling, I was going to be on this side of the room screaming and yelling. And he had told somebody is seven

00:28:55.310 - 00:29:00.100

or whatever it is and exactly 10 min to a brick through a window and whole layers. All right.

00:29:00.100 - 00:29:16.220

It worked. But at that point, okay. I'm on this side of the room screaming. And it was exams and walk past me.

00:29:16.220 - 00:29:24.230

And he said, Shut up, going, come on. Mr. Writing and learning can get everything they want from them. Now, much else we don't raise in here.

00:29:24.230 - 00:29:41.240

Let's go to this day. I know full well, higgs didn't plan that by itself. Now always accuse somebody else of doing it.

00:29:41.240 - 00:29:56.530

No, I didn't tell him to do that did well. But whatever we were after that and I did school board meeting, we obtained. But that's just indicative of how

00:29:56.530 - 00:30:12.160

leadership young animal came together for common cause. And the biggest common cause after derived. What was that community center

00:30:12.160 - 00:30:22.310

in that daycare center? The the coordinated effort between the elders and the young people. And we talked about the black.

00:30:22.310 - 00:30:30.360

The black, There's some people mentioned some other groups too. Do you remember any other group of people that was organized,

00:30:30.360 - 00:30:37.970

you remember in valuing other than the blacks, what it was weird? We are, right? What does stand for?

00:30:37.970 - 00:30:53.220

Why did you ask? Make sure last person told me to what was it? Is WEA Ws why? Why? Why EXE alright.

00:30:53.220 - 00:31:09.140

Okay. I'm done. You've Action Council. Okay. Now what is there one honest, honest outside at all with us,

00:31:09.140 - 00:31:17.750

those outbreaks with their, with their group on his operas that I'm not going to say there wasn't enough for me.

00:31:17.750 - 00:31:26.860

Okay. Basically my terror to worry with this hill. Okay. And I was allowed to wander down to where

00:31:26.860 - 00:31:36.410

my city and actually my bottom and at the time was limited. It wasn't until I really. Started working.

00:31:36.410 - 00:31:45.590

Did I became active in the West Center City area and other areas of the city as well. Okay.

00:31:45.590 - 00:31:51.920

So then then began to be some pressure on Ontario. Now, even the mayor reached the point where he was,

00:31:51.920 - 00:32:01.760

he he lifted the city curfew, but the Terry refused to leave the state curfew and refuse to a review of

00:32:01.760 - 00:32:07.700

zeta Gordon transfused to save two gliders history. Even businesses started to pressure him to do that.

00:32:07.700 - 00:32:22.370

He refused. He gets it, He gets competition. Now. His opponent and the race. Peterson is running on the promise of law and order,

00:32:22.370 - 00:32:31.660

but with justice and Terry is sand law and order, period, that they want to stay as long as possible.

00:32:31.660 - 00:32:41.750

And when the when he loses the race in November, he still doesn't take the glide away. He said he was there to

00:32:41.750 - 00:32:52.990

protect there's any do you think there was any resident on West sat on a hilltop? Any of those residents felt protected at oh, hell, no.

00:32:52.990 - 00:33:06.300

And in retrospect, I mean, the governor was our prerequisite to Philadelphia's Frank Rizzo. I mean, it's the same church,

00:33:06.300 - 00:33:20.640

different pew saying Thought, same view. I grew up in South Philly, so I know Frank Rizzo. Commissioners, I know exactly what you mean.

00:33:20.640 - 00:33:32.380

And then he doesn't he loses. Peterson comes in and he's sworn in. And before being sworn in, he toyed with the idea.

00:33:32.380 - 00:33:39.920

So to get the word out that he was thinking about keeping a guard just a little while longer. And some folks in

00:33:39.920 - 00:33:49.480

the community got when did at and told them that they will be protests and his inauguration if that happens.

00:33:49.480 - 00:33:59.170

And that's when he submitted and assign that that order to remember the people involved in it? I don't remember that.

00:33:59.170 - 00:34:15.260

And somehow or another I'm going into my senior year and I wouldn't I wouldn't focus on that. But I do remember

00:34:15.260 - 00:34:24.830

conversations at the dinner table where mom was discussing what had happened in WAC meat and what they were going to do with Terry,

00:34:24.830 - 00:34:42.910

um, and we were cigarette a whole mess. But one of the things, we started this high school fraternity and omega psi,

00:34:42.910 - 00:34:56.150

delta and African-American principles that you will is now going to add his fraternity up here at the school, wouldn't accept it.

00:34:56.150 - 00:35:13.490

But we went and we just ran had meetings outside of school. And we had Mr. Ghosn, who was our adult sponsor

00:35:13.490 - 00:35:20.820

and other people in the community said, you always wanted his fraternity and you wanted to say, what the hell are you going to do?

00:35:20.820 - 00:35:30.770

And we had to do clean up projects. We had a lot of the members were outstanding athlete. In Wilmington.

00:35:30.770 - 00:35:42.160

I had had several state track championships. So they start a little voice track team. I want to track star, so I wasn't imported that,

00:35:42.160 - 00:35:54.490

but that little boys track t is still being run today. By what metric? He never let it go.

00:35:54.490 - 00:36:05.830

Even though I don't recall because he was in front of me. He was not part of attorney, but that was still part.

00:36:05.830 - 00:36:17.600

That's part of the legacy of what happened in the sixties. And all of what we will do. Fraternity was a gang

00:36:17.600 - 00:36:30.490

in the eyes of at least some people and the community service projects and what we did to help children.

00:36:30.490 - 00:36:38.510

One thought about when consider. So just because the young Black men are organisms, even a bad principle is

00:36:38.510 - 00:36:45.480

saying, Don't do this. We views you as a gang and even when they saw the community service happening, they're still the lens.

00:36:45.480 - 00:37:02.070

It was of no moment. And that whole perspective anatomy to close the rod at Washington High School, there was this was the following year.

00:37:02.260 - 00:37:17.540

Because there was a 69? Yes. Okay. We had, we can dances. And it was difference of opinion between white students and

00:37:17.540 - 00:37:31.330

black students about the music. And we felt like the white kids had the most music. And so we asked for black students meeting.

00:37:31.330 - 00:37:41.210

You will owe you boys, you boys not gone ahead. No black student meeting in my building. Well, we were supposed

00:37:41.210 - 00:37:50.930

to leave when we when we got the word from him, we supposed to have a peaceful demonstration. And instead of folk song through

00:37:50.930 - 00:38:02.180

on a peaceful demonstration, just started beating up people. And I spent, I saw white kids. Why teachers, who I

00:38:02.180 - 00:38:09.060

played football with, teachers did. I admired and respected, didn't get him beat just because they were white.

00:38:09.250 - 00:38:26.630

And then the county police showed up in the school in Swat gear and took over the lobby to build and having that experience

00:38:26.630 - 00:38:36.560

and seeing those cops coming, they're building, seeing a blood feel, seeing hallways filled with blood of people that

00:38:36.560 - 00:38:44.420

I really loved and cared about. And I'm saying my time Nim alone, He's already is is that another and some people

00:38:44.420 - 00:39:00.840

never recover from that. And so that ended up being the genesis of my career because when I started in 1974,

00:39:01.450 - 00:39:13.490

fresh out of university, Executive Director of one's home school community council are charged with preparing city parents,

00:39:13.490 - 00:39:23.740

with helping to prepare city parents would implementation of school desegregation? I didn't like the desegregation order. I didn't agree with the desegregation order.

00:39:23.740 - 00:39:30.900

I didn't like it. He examines and didn't like it. Bb core gradient, like we all said it publicly.

00:39:31.120 - 00:39:39.880

But we knew it was coming. And so we said we're going to make it work. And what happened in Boston was not going to happen here.

00:39:39.880 - 00:39:49.940

And haven't seen the experience of a school going up literally with, with bloodshed. I was hell bent and

00:39:49.940 - 00:39:57.880

determined to do everything I could to see to it that didn't happen again. And fortunately it has not happened.

00:39:57.880 - 00:40:05.090

When we implement a school desegregation. We had our hands full. There were isolated fights and several schools,

00:40:05.090 - 00:40:13.700

but we were prepared and we walked into a school. And even to the point where we just took over office at

00:40:13.700 - 00:40:26.540

Conrad school to see to it that it didn't happen. And if nothing else, this state and this county should

00:40:26.540 - 00:40:37.420

be recognized in full full of people who were willing to put the school district decision committee together

00:40:37.420 - 00:40:45.310

and to fund a woman's home school community council to C2 it did. There was no violence

00:40:45.310 - 00:40:56.780

that should never be forgotten. Because it wasn't easy. Reminds me of the quote from Dr. King about what

00:40:56.780 - 00:41:09.800

the definition of riotous it says, riot is the language of the unheard. And what he proposed proposes a question, what has American not heard? It?

00:41:09.800 - 00:41:19.270

Haven't heard the plight of the Negro poor. And Ella Baker speaks to, you have to look at what happens at the right level,

00:41:19.270 - 00:41:28.820

what is happening and what, what is what happened before that, you spoke about the black students just wanting to get

00:41:28.820 - 00:41:37.760

together to talk about music and the administration of powers. That be said, No, you can't gather. And that telling you on people that

00:41:37.760 - 00:41:49.350

they can't they, they want. What do you what's your response to that definition of what? How young people respond to? Continuous.

00:41:49.350 - 00:41:59.760

Sadly, that may be correct. For lung concern, it was wrong, rotten, uncalled for should've never happened and inexcusable.

00:42:00.160 - 00:42:11.030

Because I still think to this day, it was outrageous. And for some of the people who got resulted, who got arrested as a result of

00:42:11.030 - 00:42:21.590

it are going to feel sorry for men. Feel sorry for now. It's just wrong. You'd be innocent little girls for no reason. They, they walk in on mute,

00:42:21.590 - 00:42:28.160

dragging them down the damn street. Now, it wasn't excused. Okay. All right. Yes, it is my view.

00:42:28.160 - 00:42:40.190

That's the view I want. I understand. And so as you look till now here we are 50 years out. Alright? Imagine for a moment

00:42:40.190 - 00:42:48.970

your granddaughter re street 50 years from now. And she's going to hear this recording and learn about this history,

00:42:48.970 - 00:42:56.080

something she's probably would not connect it to. This was the only source of information that she may get from it.

00:42:56.080 - 00:43:04.880

What would you what are the things you won't have to know? Because this lives on a history forever. What I wanted her to know,

00:43:04.880 - 00:43:17.360

that I want her to note that our grandfather was committed to fairness, equality, and justice, and equally committed to

00:43:17.360 - 00:43:38.620

doing it in a nonviolent fashion. My biggest fear is that 50 years from now, it may not be much different for her because I don't progress.

00:43:38.620 - 00:43:51.620

And the gains that were made in the sixties and seventies, bushes. And now Trump's in this new Supreme Court, Bush Court to Trump court

00:43:51.620 - 00:44:01.430

being taken apart piece by piece. And we had to do this all over again. And I know full well, I'm not going to live. I've spent 44 years and

00:44:01.430 - 00:44:11.440

education arena as an advocate. I've got pending litigation. As it relates to school funding. If we prevail with that,

00:44:11.440 - 00:44:22.430

it'll help, but it won't make it fair. Segregation has been a problem. Segregation is the problem. Segregation is one, continued to

00:44:22.430 - 00:44:33.360

be the problem for a long time. And it's going to take the same thing it took before. Those in the community.

00:44:33.360 - 00:44:51.470

The funeral community who had independent lawyers, doctors, ministers, mortician, accountable to nobody in the system.

00:44:51.470 - 00:45:00.820

And it's going to take that leadership, that kind of leadership, independent leadership all over again. N is going to take

00:45:00.820 - 00:45:15.230

confrontation, litigation in demonstration. I think so right there, I think you're right. Any final thoughts as we wrap up anything that we didn't

00:45:15.230 - 00:45:28.190

hit on as to want to share. Well, I'm glad on one hand that this is being done here at

00:45:28.190 - 00:45:37.600

the University of Delaware. Because the fact of matter is, I'm a very proud graduate of the University of Delaware.

00:45:37.600 - 00:45:48.080

But the only reason I came down here, because I was told one fun to begin and because of my behavior, I wouldn't cause material.

00:45:48.080 - 00:45:58.760

And my father said to the black guidance counselor, you sit near as living proof that any food and go to college.

00:45:58.760 - 00:46:10.670

I don't want to hear that my son is going over there, the womb. Deny that academic program that's there. I go. I'm accepted

00:46:10.670 - 00:46:20.030

at the University of Delaware. I'm accepted Adele state, I'm going to devastate unaccepted it. New Haven College in Connecticut.

00:46:20.030 - 00:46:29.690

I'm going to devastate till I'm told. I don t think you should go down the University of Delaware. Why not? Well, quite frankly,

00:46:29.690 - 00:46:39.840

I don't think you can make it there. Who just would add tell him on come in? Yeah. It's only reason I came.

00:46:39.840 - 00:46:53.210

But having been here, what I learned in high school and what I learned as a child carried right? So as a former member

00:46:53.210 - 00:47:02.950

of the Black Student Union here, during our tenure, during the four years that I was here, we fought for and God.

00:47:02.950 - 00:47:14.250

Minority Affairs Board, Black History Department, Black Cultural Center to time, black homecoming, king and queen.

00:47:14.250 - 00:47:21.650

And I very proudly was on the chart along over the first black fraternity here to University of Delaware.

00:47:21.650 - 00:47:36.950

So I looked at the students now say, what have you all done since we left? Those accomplishments that very proud of. And they continue.

00:47:36.950 - 00:47:45.900

As I walked in the room and I saw a whole gathering of African American students. But the sad part is

00:47:46.360 - 00:47:56.580

the records crystal clear that most of the students black and white here, most of the students black and white to deal with.

00:47:56.580 - 00:48:12.140

Aren't from here. You've got Sydney percent LC students. There's something drastically wrong with that picture.

00:48:12.140 - 00:48:25.880

Our institutions of higher learning cannot provide or our children don't qualify, are locked out of financially and then to a certain extent

00:48:25.880 - 00:48:34.260

academically because of what they're not getting to our own institutions of higher learning. That has to change.

00:48:35.290 - 00:48:41.930

Thank you. Thank you. I'll close with that. That's a good toes. That's an excellent close with anything

00:48:41.930 - 00:48:52.220

you want to everything capturing. Yeah. So I mean, in your opinion, people talk vaguely about the legacy of

00:48:52.220 - 00:49:04.730

1968 because you've been involved with the Wilmington organizing for so long. What do you think its impact was

00:49:04.730 - 00:49:17.810

personally and in terms of the overall trajectory of the city overall, as well as particularly black residents organizing efforts and

00:49:17.810 - 00:49:30.260

moment resort. And until people who listened all the time personally. Now, for the prerequisite

00:49:30.260 - 00:49:37.550

that Mr. reading did in terms of litigation and opening up the University of Delaware. But not for people

00:49:37.550 - 00:49:50.200

like Dick Wilson being in place as a direct result of something haven't been done to the University of Delaware?

00:49:50.200 - 00:49:57.920

I wouldn't never come to University of Delaware. I wouldn't have graduated from the University of Delaware.

00:49:57.920 - 00:50:10.080

The council seat that I hold today would have never existed. And if you look at a majority majority, minority Washington City Council,

00:50:10.080 - 00:50:24.290

that would have never happened. And those gains and that part of March success personally. And all those similar

00:50:24.290 - 00:50:38.090

situated off the backs of those who meets tremendous sacrifices and did all they could in the sixties. And therefore too many folks

00:50:38.090 - 00:50:48.390

who don't understand whose shoulders they walk on and the consequences that outspoken people had to endure.

00:50:48.640 - 00:51:00.700

And so I'm a beneficiary and I feel like I have a responsibility to give back what was given to me too. He Shu, who is given much is required.

00:51:00.700 - 00:51:08.920

But the too many people who have benefited from it, there aren't giving anything back until they get up in

00:51:08.920 - 00:51:19.160

the boardroom and think they're different in their better. And then when they face discrimination, then they come running a full-fledged us.

00:51:21.510 - 00:51:37.720

What were you feeling this year? As people are looking back at 1968, along with I guess since 2016, there's been, I guess, more visible.

00:51:37.720 - 00:51:48.070

Right? My feelings I just communicated to you. It's not happenstance that are formed a new organization and

00:51:48.070 - 00:51:58.520

brought forward funding litigation. Maybe my last byte, it disables the Big Apple. But that's my responsibility.

00:51:58.520 - 00:52:11.670

I also have a responsibility to work with young people and prepare them to replace roles and functions. That's exactly why I supported non D

00:52:11.670 - 00:52:21.800

and tizzy locked in shared dorsi and in the last election. So our responsibility and the young, younger people who are willing

00:52:21.800 - 00:52:29.330

to speak up and speak out need to be motivated, directed, and encouraged. And ended the day.

00:52:29.330 - 00:52:37.210

Folks in my generation don't have all the answers. Because what we've done in the way we've messed it up generationally.

00:52:37.210 - 00:52:57.440

And the regression I've seen, that's awful. And so now the younger people who have to come along and clean that up. Yeah. No, this has

00:52:57.440 - 00:53:04.940

been an honor and pleasure. Really truly was a street. Yeah. I've been everywhere. I saw too. They asked me,

00:53:04.940 - 00:53:11.010

I know you already talked to J. Street. I said, Well, his sons on a project and I'm as close as I could get.

00:53:11.010 - 00:53:23.570

I'm a beg and plead. So thank you for saying yes. See, I mentioned the fact that all those in

00:53:23.570 - 00:53:32.960

the black community who are independent and what people don't understand is, I'm going to retire next month from

00:53:32.960 - 00:53:43.820

hilltop Lutheran neighborhood center. At that how many years? 37 years. But Lutherans nationally internationally

00:53:43.820 - 00:53:57.170

are committed to social justice. And so because I have been with the organization since 1981, I've had the same latitude In

00:53:57.170 - 00:54:06.120

freedom that other folks that are mentioned here, which very few people have. So I've been in a position

00:54:06.120 - 00:54:15.200

to be able to speak up and speak out. Because of that level of independence in expectation was that I'd be

00:54:15.200 - 00:54:24.620

out front on something so evenly, if my board doesn't agree with me in a position that I'm taking as long as I'm speaking up

00:54:24.620 - 00:54:33.710

about justice, inequality, about something. Yeah, that's what's expected. Excellent, Excellent. That's that's a major point

00:54:33.710 - 00:54:45.380

that I want to understand. Yeah. And and JP and Jason Junior? Yeah. Because not for

00:54:45.380 - 00:54:54.770

the affiliation with a blue Lutheran organization, but a different result because I needed to work on it.

00:54:54.770 - 00:55:07.460

But you couldn't threaten my job. You couldn't threatened my funded. So here again, he was given much. Much. Much.

00:55:07.460 - 00:55:15.060

Yes. Thank you. Given us much today, Steve. Thank you so much. Thanks. Yeah.