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[Marie Laberge] So I wonder if you want to talk a little bit about the change in name and what impact you think that has, and why you think that's important? From Women's Studies

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to Women and Gender Studies. I don't know if you were involved in the conversations around that or not. [Jennifer Naccarelli] Only peripherally, I've thought a lot about this.

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I have mixed feelings about this change in name, I really do. So ultimately, it's great because it reflects the state

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of the field nationally. And it reflects what I think students are attracted to. And it reflects what

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we've been doing all along anyhow. So in that regard, I feel very comfortable with the name change. My discomfort arises from the fact

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that I don't think the work has been completed in terms of adequately representing women within the traditional disciplines

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and within the historical narrative. And I am concerned that this shift in name will reflect a shift in focus. I don't want it to imply that

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say the original agenda of say feminist empiricists who recognize an absence of women and try and write them in.

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I don't want it to imply that that has been accomplished, and that's why I'm very concerned, and I hope that we still are

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able in our coursework and in our faculty research and publications to pursue both paths in an interlocking way,

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of course, but also simultaneously because I don't believe that that re-writing has been fully completed yet. [ML] Just as an aside,

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I did notice when I ordered my textbooks, that the bookstore does not have a tab for field for Women's Studies. And that we had to go under Gender and Sexuality Studies

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in order to order our textbooks through the University bookstore. [JN] Well, that's case and point. So that's problematic. Can we create that field?

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[ML] I don't know. It's something to talk to Barnes & Noble about. [JN] Well, yeah, that's odd because all of the publishers have that field.

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We have to talk to Barnes & Noble. See! The work is not done! [ML] Confused yesterday. So how do you think,

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over the course of your academic career, you've seen the field of Women's Studies change from when you started to where we are today? [JN] I just remember having

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these debates as a graduate student in the 1990s about if we should focus on Women and Gender Studies. And we had many conversations about this,

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and those conversations are kind of taken for granted now and assumed. And I remember vividly, we had a reading group,

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a feminist reading group, and everybody was emphatically insisting that it remain Women's Studies and that

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Gender Studies was something different. And again, going back to this point, the work has not been accomplished yet. So I don't... those same people

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those same scholars now, who are at other institutions, they no longer have that strong attachment to the Women's Studies only.

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They too have evolved like everybody else has. So much so that they may even disagree with me in wanting to keep

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priority on the Women's Studies. I think most of them have really abandoned that identity as a scholar and firmly identify

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themselves more in the realm of Gender Studies. And I'm presenting it like they're opposite or oppositional.

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And I really, I obviously examine the ways they intersect, but it's just different, seeing the shift in my own colleagues.

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[ML] Do you think it's had an impact in our curriculum here in Delaware? Or, no? [JN] You know what, no. I think. I mean, yes, in the sense that, for example,

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we have a new SGST course opening in the fall, Theories of Sexuality and Gender Studies. But no, because we're still offering our traditional "Women

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and" courses and they're still continuing to be very popular. Women and Violence, very popular. Women and Religion a consistently attractive class to

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students. We've got Women and Work. So I think that we do a very good job of pursuing both paths and letting

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our faculty pursue their interests, the things they're interested in, and the students sort of find a home within

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that curriculum. [ML] And how do you see overall how our curriculum has been addressed over the last couple years, in terms of different areas that we're

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focusing on, or expanding classes in different contexts? [JN] Well, we're certainly expanding a lot in the Violence Against Women context. And those courses

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really some come from our home department, but are a lot of those courses are developed with our collaboration with

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joint faculty from other departments. And I think that's really exciting. I think we have a great crew of dedicated joint faculty who help

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us to push the boundaries of our curriculum. And I think that's really exciting. And the students love that. The students see

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that collaboration between departments and referrals between faculty of students. And they feel like they're part of a special community too.

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[ML] Any other areas that you think are important in terms of our curriculum? I think that we have to connect our theory classes to real-life experiences.

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And I think we need to really pay attention. I also think it's important to make sure they have

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a good foundation in theory before they graduate. And I think that I'm really pleased we acquired ownership

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of Intro to Feminist Theory 216. I think it's really important that if we graduate a Women's Studies major, they be able to identify and explain

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at least 5 different varieties of feminist theory and how they're different from one another. And if we're not graduating students

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from Women's Studies and Gender Studies who can do that? Then, that's a flaw in our curriculum. So I'm really happy about that.

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But I do think it needs to be connected to real-life experiences to make them connect to it and be interested in it.

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So definitely a place for theory, a place for service-learning, a place for cross-collaboration among departments.

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And this whole advocacy piece, I think that that's our future. And a graduate program. [ML] Do you want to talk about that?

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[JN] Well, I don't know that we're... we have a graduate certificate approved. It's a great accomplishment.

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I think that we need to grow as a faculty before we can launch a full graduate program. We don't have enough faculty

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to educate everybody. And right now we do a good job of serving a tremendous amount of undergraduates with a very small faculty.

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And that if we start serving graduate students too, without new hires we're in trouble, honestly. [ML] So you do a lot of advising of students.

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I wonder what you find brings them to Women's Studies? And what do you think they get out of it? [JN] I think that... Well, there's 2 paths to

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Women's Studies that I can see, 2 main paths. They have an amazing experience with one of our faculty.

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They are excited to do their homework. They're excited about the level of mentoring our faculty offer them, and that brings them deeper into

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the academics. And then they discover their real intellectual niche. But so certainly it's, "I had a great experience in 201

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and I want more." There's that. But I also think there's the experience of being victimized or being afraid or

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feeling secondary that also bring students. This semester in 313, every student is free to design a research project of

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their course, of their choice. So it was really telling to me the topics that they all picked in figuring out

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what was important to them. When I was an undergraduate, when we all picked topics, it was all about reproductive health.

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You know, access to birth control, access to abortion. That was, those were the issues that we all talked about a lot.

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Our students now really assume that their reproductive future is safe. Incorrectly assume that their reproductive future

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is safe and that they're always going to have access to the services that they need. So they don't write papers about that anymore.

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What they write about is the fact that 1 in 4 college women get sexually assaulted.

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I had 22 students in the class. They were all free to write on anything that they wanted. We developed their topics

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all semester together. At least 11 of them picked a topic that refers to violence against women.

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And they all took very different angles. But that says something to me. Nobody did reproductive health. So I think that their experiences of

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violence are bringing them to Women's Studies, in some respect, which is why these advocacy programs are popular.

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But students tell me their stories all the time. And, you know, we can't ignore that. [ML] So what do you think

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they get out of their Women's Studies degree? [JN] They get mastery of the tools of a variety of disciplines. They get oral communication skills,

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debate skills, they get, at least in my courses, lots of written communication skills in all different formats.

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I hope that they develop the ability to engage in dialogue instead of shut down conversations and have things deteriorate into unproductive debate.

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I think they understand the complex ways that we are gendered and present our genders. They certainly understand

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intersectionality of race, class, and gender. And other students from other disciplines, well maybe some other disciplines, but they don't grasp

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that intersectionality the way our Women's Studies students do. They see the world as a very complex place.

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So there are all things they get. [ML] The one thing that they most discuss in their capstone summaries

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is feeling empowered, personal empowerment. And they don't all put it that way, but it's sort of like, "I came into my own." So in terms of thinking about Women's Studies'

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presence on campus here at UD, what do you think our contribution is to the campus? [JN] There's many contributions. So I think we have a very dedicated,

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hard-working group of faculty who are represented probably on every committee on the campus. I think that we

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offer really diverse programming, some historical connection to the past, because many of our programs have existed since the beginning of the

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Women's Studies program. I think we're also the conscience of the campus and we pay close attention to issues of social justice

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and have the tools to articulate our concerns and mobilize support. Now with this service-learning advocacy bit,

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I think we're going to bring national attention to the campus being the first undergraduate program in to

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train advocates in domestic violence. I think that there... I think that's a good few ways we represent Women's Studies on the campus.

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[ML] So what do you say to critics who say we're still not a serious discipline? [JN] Well, they're just incorrect. You know, it's like,

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I don't really tend to waste my time shouting at the wind, you know, I think anybody who takes the time to look

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into the scholarship that the field has produced, would not say that. Because to say that is to devalue their own disciplines.

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Because we use the tools of every discipline. So let the critics say what they want. 40 years here.

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We're growing in new directions. We're clearly not going anybody anywhere. Maybe I'm as naive about this as students are about the future

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of their reproductive health. But I just think that Women's Studies is here to stay. [ML] So that brings me to the question about

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we just became departments at a time when other Women's Studies programs or departments are being closed down. What do you think is happening here at UD that enabled us to do that?

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[JN] Well, we serve a tremendous number of students, first and foremost. I mean, it's the numbers that go through our doors. Our courses, our faculty are popular.

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We make money. That. I think that has a lot to do with it. Then also, we do have a supportive administration.

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Currently. I can't speak for the past, but currently in my role as Associate Chair, I've come in contact with members of the administration

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from all different areas and I've experienced nothing but encouragement and support. And they want us to grow. They're not placing

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barriers to hinder our success. So I do feel we have institutional support. I don't know enough about the details of our past

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if that's always true. But right now I feel we're supported. We always need more faculty though. [ML] So what do you think

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still needs to be addressed? [JN] Faculty! [ML] Increasing the number of lines? [JN] Yes. Yes. Faculty and adding to the security

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and professional development of faculty on non-tenure track lines and recognizing the equal, yet different contributions of

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all different varieties of faculty. And but we need more faculty. I think. [ML] Which means we would need a bigger building. [JN] I know.

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And this is a beautiful building. I don't want to give up these beautiful offices. But I think a new, I think a new building will be coming one day.

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So. [ML] So in terms of your position as Associate Chair, what do you think, what do you see in terms of how Women's Studies functions?

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What areas we need to work on, to sort of increase that which we do? That's a very vague question. [JN] How we function like administratively and bureaucratically? [ML] As well as

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in relationship to the University? [JN] Well, I think we're doing a lot of things well, that need to be continued. Instead of reinventing the wheel,

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I think we should build on our current connections and our current strengths. I think that what we

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do in terms of course load and serving students and helping faculty needs that it's very tough to run a department with one administrator in it.

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I think that we need a little bit more staffing to be more efficient. But, I don't know. Was that

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to the point of your question? [ML] Yes. Is there anything else that we need to sort of think about in terms of how we are looking to the future?

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You've been here at the tail end of the 40 years. What would we need to make it another 40 years, do you think? [JN] I think we need to continue on the paths that we're on.

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I really do think that this, I hate to say it, but it's just the reality of the situation. The more we can connect

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our educational experience with diverse career paths for students, the more secure our future will be. And I know that that is not

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necessarily the intellectual motivation that we want to have, but I think that it can be really interesting to think about

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the ways to do that. And ultimately, that's how we will be able to transform society. So I do think that

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that's the future of security in, at least in this current economic climate. But students, you know, they want to work

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and they want to work in a way, our students want to work in a way that's going to be transformative. So I think the more we can think

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and offer those opportunities, the better. [ML] So what else would you like to say about Women's Studies at the University of Delaware? [JN] It's a great place to be. I live in a feminist's dreamland,

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but when you go to your conferences and you see your friends and they talk about the stuff that goes on in their departments and

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how they're not valued or how they're taken advantage of by being women, or a lack of any feminist consideration,

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I realize how lucky I am because I don't deal with any of that on a daily basis here. It's when we leave here,

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that I face that. But, I feel really lucky that I met Jessica. I feel really lucky that I got to, for the last year she was here,

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work very closely with her and learned so much about her leadership style and how she integrates her feminist agenda in all areas,

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and how she turns it on and tunes it down as appropriately. I think that all of the women here, I learn so much from

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in very different ways because everybody is so different. So it's almost like I'm, I can shop around for tools and techniques,

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and all the faculty in our department have something to offer me. So it's a great place to be. [ML] Anything else? [JN] No, thank you.

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[ML] Thank you very much. [JN] Thank you.