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This is Taylor currently on November 15th, 2021, interviewing fluorine Henderson. I want to start with your early life. I know you're we've got your number

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through community resident of New York, not necessarily UT student. So can you talk about growing up in New York? I grew up in

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a historic New London road, um, community. And I lived on New London road, 109 New London road actually. And it was at that time it

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was a totally black community. I mean, there were Caucasians that lived on the outskirts of the community.

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But basically New London road, Cleveland Avenue. Who urban street, race Street. Road Street were areas

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that were where black people resided. We had initially when I was small, we had her own stores, you know, corner stores, barber shop, Churches.

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Yeah. Everything was contained within that community. Now, we did walk to Main Street and we

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were we went into the stores, but we were not allowed to have a sit at the counter and have and eat or drink anything.

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About what year was this? Just draw it. I I was born in 1952. I would guess that this was like,

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well, I can remember I can remember walking to Newt to Main Street myself. And I can also remember being taken to hand held walking to Main Street.

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I would say it was like 19561958. I can't even remember when we were able I guess I was maybe in junior high school.

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We were finally able to sit at the counter or an order like a soda on, you know, because I went to I attended junior high school

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at Central Middle School, which is now New are called they still call it New York Hall. I'm not sure if that is Peterson hall.

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Yes. I've heard of the eye Pearson Pearson Hall and building because I worked at the university.

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I am familiar with some of the buildings there. I forgotten. I've been retired for several years.

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But yeah, things were very, very different. There was a movie theater just about where Grottoes pizza is called the State theater.

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We were not allowed to sit in the theater where whites were sitting. We had to sit in the balcony. Most of the time.

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If we if I went to a movie as a child, I went to Wilmington to the movies and we will catch the bus. If something was really I can't remember

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any of the things that I saw in Wilmington, but I can remember catching the bus and go into Wilmington. It was very exciting for us to catch the bus

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and go to Wilmington and see a movie. And yeah. So time to were very different. And so when I see,

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when I go to into New York and I, the same streets that I played on and that, you know, are so familiar to me. Had family down the street and just swarm.

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Warm memories, very rich memories of good times, you know, when I see that those houses are gone and that there are barely

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any people of color living in that area. It is very, very hurtful to me. Very well. I can remember The day that New London road,

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the house was on New London road were cleared for the town homes that are there now. I think I waited like

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two weeks before I actually went to New York. I I don't go to church in that area anymore. I used to go to church in that area but I don't anymore,

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so I don't I have some relatives that live in the area but I didn't have a reason to go. And someone said to me, get yourself ready.

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You know, it was almost like, I don't know I don't know what they were. I didn't understand what they were trying to tell me.

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But I got to the little yield at New London. And I could see from there, I could see my uncle had nice house which was in tere minor.

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And I ride my eyeballs out because a whole community haven't wiped out. Just completely wiped out.

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Now, we had little pairs that we went through to get to each other's houses. And it might have been, you know, other people may have

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seen that area as unsightly. But to me it was home. Every every space was home. So yes, it's very upsetting to me.

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What I see now. Did I answer your question? Yes. That there's no specific questions. This is I want to hear what you want to tell

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me that these are just guiding top. What's the question? I can't even remember just about no, that was perfect.

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That was just part of your early life and you are? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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I went to church there. I can remember, you know what? I couldn't walk to church on my own and excuse me,

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the superintendent of our Sunday school, it was a tight community. So the superintendent of our Sunday school would come and pick me up.

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And I would ride. She would pick me up and she would bring me home. I must have been like maybe four or five

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then there was a church like two or three doors down for me. And I went to that church because my parents started me in church really,

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really early and I went to that church until my mom thought that I was mature enough to get in the car with someone and I wouldn't behave

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myself and go and whatever. And then after awhile got to the point where I could walk across that,

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I guess Cleveland and Hillside. Yeah. I could walk across that street by myself and tell you there

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are so many memories in that area for me. All my friends, you know. We now were all 6970 years old and it's just there.

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It's a lot. And I never knew how precious it was. The one I really think I started realizing the significance was when I got

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married and I moved away, I moved to Minnesota. And we drove there, so I realized how far was away from home.

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And then Minnesota, there are very few black people. Even though I lived on I lived I lived in, out on the outskirts of deludes.

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I didn't live on the base, but there was no black community that I knew of. I would I looked

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and looked and looked for it. And I just never found that there were pockets of black people on base, but they were from all over the country.

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Of course, there was a kinship there, but nothing like the relationship that I had with my community. And I can remember

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the first thing that I really missed was Sunday mornings. Because on Sunday mornings there was a protocol.

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You know, you got up. My mom would be making sausage and eggs and pancakes or fried potatoes and, you know, the whole block would

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smell like breakfast because we lived in row houses. I lived in a row house in the whole block would

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smell like breakfast and all the kids, you know, everybody would be preparing for church that day. There were those that didn't go to church,

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but for the most part, for black people, Church is part of your daily life. And so, you know, the,

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the girls would be dressed in their dresses and the boys would be usually dressed in suits at that time because,

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you know, it wasn't as casual as it is today. But there I didn't have that. First of all, I lived in a more rural area and we lived like

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you had to walk to the mailbox. And the closest house. You could see it in the wintertime because the leaves were off the trees.

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But in the spring when spring came, you couldn't see through to the neighbor's house and all the snow. It was just so different.

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But the thing that I've missed the most was having a community, having being able to see people that look like

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me and share those experiences. And so when we when he got out of the military, we came back to

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Delaware because we felt that that was where we wanted to raise our children. And we lived in an apartment for awhile and then we moved here.

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And I still didn't have that sense of community because the people in this neighborhood did not want me here. This was in 1970.

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I think it was 1978 that we bought this house. And this not much not much at all. And Brooke side basically was

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built for people who worked at Chrysler. When Christ came to New Arc than this development as well as Rob Scott and a few others were built.

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And these people hated me. And book side, not all of them. Some of them were very open with their prejudice and others were very closed.

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And it's still that way. But I can remember the man down the street just a couple of doors down on the other side of the street.

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He that house now is being worked on and they he has since died. But he told my oldest daughter who had to walk past

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his house to catch the school bus because the school bus came on the corner down there. Don't you walk on my sidewalk.

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Nigger. To your daughter and our care market and I didn't know that he called her that name

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because she wouldn't she didn't tell me until she grew up. She is now 50 years old. But I told her You will

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walk on his sidewalk every day. That the Lord sends. And I will watch you from this house. Don't you walk on

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the other side of the street? Use specifically rain or shine? You walk on his sidewalk because that sidewalk is not his.

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And she did. And she did and my kids, they experience much more harassment and I even knew,

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like on a bus Going to school, you know, and just all kinds of things that I never knew about. And I didn't really like it here.

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I didn't really like it here. And they obviously didn't. And I can remember in the summer because we had big farm in

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the summer time on New London. And I can remember my pastor live on the London road across from our church. And they really loved me,

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especially after my divorce. And that's when I really got to know him because, you know, you'd go through a trauma in divorce.

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And every day I worked at UD then and every day I would go home at lunchtime, get my kids, and bring them the Reverend Woods

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has he lived right on Church Street and right on the corner and that little white house, that's where they lived.

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And they will go there, they will eat lunch, and they would stay there until I came home from work at 430 from the university.

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And they had a ball. They would go up to the George Wilson Center, go swimming in the pool with George Wilson Center.

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Just they were able to have a black childhood. I was concerned because, you know, even in the military,

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they were culturally, they were exposed to many cultures in the military, but they weren't exposed to

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black people in the military. And so it came to me. There are all these kids really need some exposure here.

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And they would go to church, but I took them to my church, which was black. But they didn't really fit in because they

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were just kind of odd or whatever. And then they started going up there and having their own their friends and haven't sleepovers and going

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to block parties and learning how to do double dutch rope and all of these things that make your life rich that you remember,

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you know, and yeah, that was a major concern for me. That they didn't really have community. Know if why did you ask me a question about?

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No. I'm just I just wanted to know. No, that was great. It sounds like you have a lot of

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memories from early New London road. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I really do. Can you can you speak more on that?

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Were your parents from the same area? Did they tell you any stories about them growing up in comparison to you? Well, my father was one of 17 children.

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He was the oldest of 17 children who grew up in New York. And this is so funny because, you know that I think it's Ancestry.com.

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Yeah. My oldest grandson is in Texas. He's working on a PhD and I want to say African-American religion.

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At any rate, he's doing some work with a black church down there and he got all he has this account with. So he started looking up our ancestry.

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And he told me things about my ancestors that I didn't even know. I know that my father my parents, my father's parents or one of them,

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one came to New York, is dead. Came to New York from Maryland, Eastern shore. A little town called Poka Yoke, Maryland.

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And he came to Glasgow to do farming because Glasgow was nothing but farms, you know. And then he met

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my grandmother who lived in Newark because the communities were so close and they married. My grandmother actually had,

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I think two or three husbands. She had 17 children. But anyway, yes, my dad grew up in New York. He had the whole new art experience.

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Really. I don't remember him telling me a whole lot about his childhood. I know that he that he was

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raised because his mom had so many children. He was raised by his grandmother and several of the children were raised by relatives.

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But he really never shared with me about who's growing up. I know that he went to elementary school in Newark and my dad,

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You have to remember, was born in 1902 or three. And so he went to the all colored school

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and all of those things. Really, really. I always wondered why he didn't really do the things that

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other parents seem to be able to do. For my mom and dad were older, like they did not have me until my dad was 50 and my mom was 38.

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So they were significantly older. And so he did not drive. She did not drive. It was just really strange,

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but I realize now it's because he probably grew up at a time when driving a car was like really far fetched for a black man,

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you know, because he probably couldn't afford a car. We were I know now that we were poor and lived

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very meager lead, but you know what, I didn't know that I did not know that we were poor,

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poor like that because I had everything that I wanted and then I needed. My dad worked hard.

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He was he was a construction worker. And he worked every day, you know, came home from work dirty and, you know, whatever.

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But they were very proud people, you know, always clean. God, if my mom could see my house, she would probably.

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I mean, because the one thing that everybody said about my mom was that you could eat off her floors where you

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can eat off my floor. But she was just neat and tidy and everything had its place. And it's because she was a domestic worker.

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And she my mom was from Charlottesville, Virginia. And she came to New York to work for a family who moved to New York to,

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I believe work at one of the mills. He was like an administrator at one of the mills. There were several meals and new art.

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There was the Curtis paper mailed and it was just a lot of, you know. And so she came to work and she met my dad and they got married.

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I think they married late. But they were married for like ten years before I even before. They just thought they would never

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want to have children. And then I came and they were just like, Oh, I don't know, but they treated me like I was a princess.

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Everybody talks about, you know, how they treated me. And not only did they treat me like that. You know, their friends were older too,

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and so I don't know where it is now. What I said I was, if they get this museum thing together, a dirge Wilson's that

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arm and take it up there. There was a lady named Miss Evelyn chambers and her husband, and she was a teacher.

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And he owned the local liquor stores, so they had money, but they were my parents age and my parents friends.

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And so when I was born, there's a little pouch. I have to find it. I have to fund that.

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But there's a little pouch that came from monsters jewelers. And it's a silver and a silver silver spoon and fork.

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And a silver. I my mom said it was a pusher, something that they use to scoop the food up and push it into the baby's mouth.

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And they all it has my initials on it. And that was given to me by the chambers family. But, you know, like they had stuff like that.

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I know they couldn't probably afford it, but when they wanted something, they worked for it. They saved for it and they paid for it.

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And maybe they couldn't have a car, but I think they could have had a car. But I think that my dad just, you know, everything was

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right there in that area. The only thing they had to really walk to or whatever was the grocery store. And my mom would get

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a cab to the grocery store. But everything was pretty centrally located, especially for my dad because he walked everywhere.

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And he just never I think they could have afforded a car. But they never got one. And it's crazy because

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even when I went to high school, I took driver's ed past driver's ed or I never got my license. Isn't that so I didn't get my license

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and tiles like 21 and I went to driving score that point. My license, That's a different day and time, but every body hello, everybody.

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I don't know if that's a story. Is a story, it's a good story. It was, of course, all this information, especially to

00:30:00.510 - 00:30:13.730

little historians, ears, goals. I don't even know where to go for man. Go. And my my grandkids tell me

00:30:13.730 - 00:30:23.540

that I go off on tangents all the time. So just pull me back in because it'll get me going on something else. That's okay.

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I got it in. Its natural ally. Yeah. So you know about my mom. What about you were talking before?

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We'll go back around to UD is expansion and it's interfering with the new lending community and neighborhood physically also

00:30:46.840 - 00:30:55.570

just expanding where you are around to see that happen, I'm assuming. I mean, you were pretty close by and witness that.

00:30:55.570 - 00:31:15.570

Can you just speak about that? Was that was it quick? Was it I remember coming home from Minnesota. My ex husband's family lived in her cousin.

00:31:15.570 - 00:31:29.040

And so we came I think we came and he knew all those that groups like near Greenville and all that. And so we came

00:31:29.040 - 00:31:39.350

down through Pennsylvania, right? Maybe Westchester area. And we came when we came home, we went to hook has some first,

00:31:39.350 - 00:31:49.060

we visited with his parents and then we came to New York. And when we came to New York, it was so strange.

00:31:49.060 - 00:32:03.690

We were coming down paper mill mood. There was this huge built-in. I could see this huge building like where it was the towers.

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Where did you get these huge buildings? You know, this is not a city. And it was the towers. And the towers was the first invasion.

00:32:26.980 - 00:32:40.830

Because the area that the towers is in. We refer to in the black community as greedy fields. I don't know the story behind it.

00:32:40.830 - 00:32:53.280

I think it was grainy farms. And at one time, I don't know how long ago. I wish I did. But I can remember.

00:32:53.280 - 00:33:07.880

We used to pick blackberries because it was a big green area. You know, it was the world's basically we would go

00:33:07.880 - 00:33:20.330

in there and we would pick blackberries. It was Greenfield's. And I can remember at some point, I think when I was in junior high school,

00:33:20.330 - 00:33:32.940

there was talk of taking grainy fields and building low-income or affordable housing in that area.

00:33:34.600 - 00:33:48.240

And that would have been practical because that area was close to New London, close to the black community, close to the area where we live.

00:33:48.370 - 00:34:02.480

And actually right where you come out of the towers. One of my best friends live there, Lucia Hackett and her family.

00:34:02.480 - 00:34:19.400

They lived in a duplex right? In that area. And this low-income, affordable housing was supposed

00:34:19.400 - 00:34:33.260

to look like this house that they lived in, but it never they never built anymore of that. Now, that's a nice area.

00:34:33.260 - 00:34:48.020

I mean, look at what they've done to it. Yeah. But obviously, there was another plan because when

00:34:48.020 - 00:35:03.860

they did build low income housing, affordable housing was built on adult was built on Cleveland Avenue down there

00:35:03.860 - 00:35:18.860

where all those car dealerships are. And it was basically built on what used to be adult and eventually had to be torn

00:35:18.860 - 00:35:40.990

down because of environmental issues. I lived on that though. 1717 South Kingston was 17 be terrorists drive.

00:35:40.990 - 00:35:58.650

I remember all my addresses. Usually I tried to get no, but, you know, there was another plan because that Yeah, that was going to be an area for

00:35:58.650 - 00:36:13.760

low income was snatched up by the University of Delaware. It was too good for poor people. But to University of Delaware had made

00:36:13.760 - 00:36:29.680

millions off of that land. That's when it started. That's when it started. And the rest is history.

00:36:29.680 - 00:36:51.300

Trying to think of what houses are first ago. From there. Just just an invasion. One by one.

00:36:51.300 - 00:37:03.970

I would see families selling up their houses and sometimes I get really upset with myself because why would I

00:37:03.970 - 00:37:22.430

come out here and in this area and live? Why wouldn't I just try to get a piece of land and my own neighborhood. Oh, just that really irritates me.

00:37:22.430 - 00:37:35.820

But sometimes I think, well, there were a lot of things going on that, you know, it was a very turbulent time.

00:37:35.820 - 00:37:46.270

You know, somebody from the Air Force or from the military could come, you know, what the GUI plan or whatever

00:37:46.270 - 00:38:00.370

and buy a house in this area. It was just seriously. When I came to this neighborhood, I lived like several she lived on the street.

00:38:00.370 - 00:38:14.720

And we lived here. I believe we were the only black people in this neighborhood. That's how things were back then.

00:38:14.720 - 00:38:32.170

Black people just didn't buy homes. They bought homes in black neighborhoods. They went when when things started happening in the New London road area,

00:38:32.170 - 00:38:45.860

families, Oh God. The thing that I think that hurts me the most is that there were families that had

00:38:45.860 - 00:38:59.780

to leave New York and move to Wilmington. And one of those families, and I can only talk about this one family because they were my cousins.

00:38:59.780 - 00:39:14.790

And they had there were at least ten kids, maybe maybe maybe, maybe nine. And they lived in a row house on Cleveland Avenue.

00:39:14.790 - 00:39:24.860

And they had to move to what? To whom, and they were forced to for whatever reasons, to move to Wilmington.

00:39:24.860 - 00:39:40.120

Our family was a long has a long history in New York. And so they went to Wilmington and we

00:39:40.120 - 00:39:50.570

didn't see each other very much. And it did something to our family connection because I was basically an only child.

00:39:50.570 - 00:40:01.880

And so my cousins were my sisters and brothers. And so they moved to Wilmington. They went to Wilmington schools

00:40:01.880 - 00:40:11.750

and Wilmington high schools. And it just really, it just after them. It was another film

00:40:11.750 - 00:40:30.640

relieving and just sad. Sad that there was no place for them to go here in New York.

00:40:30.640 - 00:40:47.360

They didn't want to move. Now, I doubt that they come back. There was just no opportunity. That's the whole thing.

00:40:47.360 - 00:41:09.320

No opportunity to move ahead. To move forward. I'll get very yeah. It's a shame.

00:41:09.320 - 00:41:22.530

Changed so much. So when was it that he started working at UT? That was it after he came back from Minnesota.

00:41:23.140 - 00:41:34.940

I went to you. Well, let me just say that. When I came back from Minnesota and we bought this house

00:41:34.940 - 00:41:54.770

shortly after we bought this house. My ex-husband out a position on the New Castle County Police Force. And basically, I was a stay-at-home mom and,

00:41:54.770 - 00:42:05.480

you know, and then of course we got the big divorce, which I can handle now. But because I really

00:42:05.480 - 00:42:16.190

had no skills or anything, you know, I was just like, Oh God, I don't know what I'm going to do. And for couple of years I worked in

00:42:16.190 - 00:42:31.340

Wilmington and one of my jobs was like hours. The hours were not good. I worked for my three to 11 And, you know, I had elementary age children,

00:42:31.340 - 00:42:43.820

it wasn't good. And I had a girlfriend. Who worked at you did. And so she said flooding or try to get a job

00:42:43.820 - 00:42:56.330

that you did because their benefits are good. It's, you know, the hours would be better for you. And she encouraged me to apply.

00:42:56.330 - 00:43:05.780

What? Each time I apply. It just seemed like I couldn't get into you did I didn't really

00:43:05.780 - 00:43:23.960

want to work in food service or anything like that because I had some college. And I just felt like I felt like I could do something else.

00:43:23.960 - 00:43:34.150

I felt like that wasn't where I was supposed to be. And so I had a job that I kept working and I kind of gave up on you.

00:43:34.150 - 00:43:56.290

And then one day I got a call to come in for an interview for the admissions office at you did. And honestly, I don't want to tell her story.

00:43:56.290 - 00:44:07.160

I'm going to tell it. Work there anymore. They can't take my pension. But they don't want to hire me.

00:44:07.160 - 00:44:20.480

I was qualified for the position. It was a telephone receptionists in the admissions office. I had experienced because

00:44:20.480 - 00:44:28.990

I worked for the Academy of Medicine. I was a switchboard operator at the Academy of Medicine. Got to tell me that I couldn't

00:44:28.990 - 00:44:37.300

answer phones in the admissions office, but I'd never even thought of it that way. I just thought, well, then in hire me,

00:44:37.300 - 00:44:48.620

maybe I didn't interview well, something like that. Well, Vanessa who worked in human resources better,

00:44:48.620 - 00:45:06.050

she said, you are qualified for this job. And I'm going to go to affirmative action. And local have to hire you. And they did. Affirmative action,

00:45:06.050 - 00:45:19.130

gotten involved in the hiring process and they had to hire me. This was in 19 I forgot. I started working there in

00:45:19.130 - 00:45:31.450

1983. Let me tell you. The doors were opened for black students that you did because I had even attended school there.

00:45:31.450 - 00:45:48.430

But those offices. So there's more racial issues in faculty is out where my faculty know I was,

00:45:48.430 - 00:46:04.730

this was a telephone receptionist. They did not they wanted a certain type of person sitting there answering their phones, being part of their office.

00:46:05.220 - 00:46:26.500

And they didn't think I was that person. Let's face it, I am a little large. But that shouldn't make a difference. I answered phones for doctors.

00:46:26.500 - 00:46:42.110

Yeah. I make connections with hospitals and handle emergencies. And you're not going to hire me. They eventually had to hire me.

00:46:44.010 - 00:46:55.440

And working in that office. I've worked a lot of different places, but working in that office in that year. Let me tell you, they watched me

00:46:55.440 - 00:47:11.280

like but for whatever reason, it didn't intimidate me. It didn't make me perform any differently than I wasn't I don't know.

00:47:11.280 - 00:47:21.300

I shouldn't been because when I look back on it, my boss there was there were two guesses. Desk in the reception area.

00:47:21.300 - 00:47:35.900

And my boss said at one and I said it other one. And I just talked on the telephone. Like a lot of different people

00:47:35.900 - 00:47:43.670

would call from other areas of the university and try to trip me up and try to, you know, see if I

00:47:43.670 - 00:47:55.940

knew the difference between a dean and, you know, all of this kind of stuff, but I've made it. And of course, we know that during

00:47:55.940 - 00:48:13.580

the peak times that phone got really busy. I still made it. It was ruling. It was a phone constantly,

00:48:13.580 - 00:48:22.520

constantly reading and after taking a million phone calls during the day, I had to come home and deal with my children and the other,

00:48:22.520 - 00:48:37.100

but thank God, I made it and made it and every day. I just pray for strength. So it wasn't tough job my end.

00:48:37.100 - 00:48:48.230

But it was a job that the job that they had me doing to people should have been doing because

00:48:48.230 - 00:49:09.320

that's how busy it was. The person that they didn't think they should hire was the very person who could handle it. And I sat in that position

00:49:09.320 - 00:49:20.300

for for the longest time. And that boss that sat next to me every single day to see if I was making a mistake and all that kind of stuff.

00:49:20.300 - 00:49:39.470

That little guy became my best friend. Best friend, but we were buddies. He learned that there was more to me than my blackface and my big body.

00:49:39.470 - 00:50:02.880

He learned that there was a person inside of good person inside. Weren't even the other coworkers, the secretaries and stuff.

00:50:03.160 - 00:50:18.200

Some of them were very prejudice. They made all kinds of remarks about the names of black people. Oh, you know, what,

00:50:18.200 - 00:50:30.120

what kind of name is this? Guano or, you know, that kinda stuff. Things they would say things that were that they shouldn't have been say.

00:50:32.400 - 00:50:52.220

I just kept my head up my job. But I saw a lot of things change in that office. They had to change.

00:50:52.320 - 00:51:10.930

They had to change. It wasn't so much denying people because they were black. What it was, but it was the fact

00:51:10.930 - 00:51:28.090

that they did not think that black people were good enough to be at the University of Delaware. It was discrimination.

00:51:28.090 - 00:51:40.460

It was and it was they didn't even realize that they were doing it. They had been doing this,

00:51:40.460 - 00:51:54.710

playing this game for so long that they didn't even realize that they were doing it. I saw a lot of stuff.

00:51:54.710 - 00:52:08.830

Heard a lot of stuff. So how long did he work for admissions? So many years. The whole the whole time I was at university,

00:52:08.830 - 00:52:22.850

I worked for admissions many years, right? Was 34 years. When I finally got off the phones. Same little man came

00:52:22.850 - 00:52:32.540

and said flowing at this, by this time they were family and admissions, right? They let a black person into their family.

00:52:32.540 - 00:52:40.910

There was enough. There were a couple black guys that worked into what they really they

00:52:40.910 - 00:52:55.740

really kind of they were a great support system for me there. But even information that I needed to do my job.

00:52:55.740 - 00:53:10.390

They made it difficult for me to get the information. But Dick Wilson, he would always say, Honey, let me come and show you this.

00:53:10.390 - 00:53:18.290

Let me come and show you that. Let me tell you this or that I got the information that I need it to be able to talk on those phones and

00:53:18.290 - 00:53:31.610

to tell them Tell the people on the other end what I needed to say and how I needed to say it. But anyway, guy came and asked me,

00:53:32.310 - 00:53:44.380

you know, came and offered me another position which I went to. I moved up. And when I left that position,

00:53:44.380 - 00:53:57.910

they did replace me with two other people. Two people, not me, not worn too. And I worked in this other little Records position

00:53:57.910 - 00:54:10.880

for a little while. And then there was very kind man. He was from Texas. He became Dean of Admissions, Bruce Walker.

00:54:10.880 - 00:54:21.650

And Bruce, for whatever reason, you would think as somebody from Texas as being just so racially biased?

00:54:21.650 - 00:54:33.590

I mean, my grandson and stare down, he still says the places, you know, Bruce Walker. For what? And I think it

00:54:33.590 - 00:54:47.390

was I personally feel that he had a theology background. And I really believed that he had. Love in his heart and that

00:54:47.390 - 00:55:01.190

the Lord changed the way that he saw things. And Bruce came to me. He really he liked me a lot. And he came upstairs.

00:55:01.190 - 00:55:11.640

I had my office was on the second floor, Halloween hall. And he said Florida, I really want to talk to you and I'm just like, okay.

00:55:12.190 - 00:55:25.100

He said, we're getting ready to open a new office. We're getting ready to move things to across the street

00:55:25.100 - 00:55:36.650

in a visitor center. I said, oh, okay. He said, I really want you to be the first face.

00:55:36.650 - 00:55:48.800

I want you to be the face of the university. I really believed that people that you know how to treat, people, you know how to work with people you know how

00:55:48.800 - 00:56:04.970

to treat students and their parents. And I feel that they would be comfortable. You're the person for this position. I thought, Oh, God,

00:56:04.970 - 00:56:14.430

trying to get rid of me, what is going on here. And so I did I moved to the visitor center at that time.

00:56:14.650 - 00:56:25.520

You know where the Center for Black culture. The visitor's center was that little house, that little blue house right next to the Center for Black culture.

00:56:25.520 - 00:56:33.260

That was the visitor center. It was tiny. God. I don't know how he made it work.

00:56:33.260 - 00:56:50.960

I don't know how they work. The little present tasting room initially was as big as this room. You could sit maybe 20 chairs in there.

00:56:50.960 - 00:57:00.890

And if you know, on those big days like Columbus Day or whatever, oh my god, there's just tons of people visit.

00:57:00.890 - 00:57:23.780

It would just be horrendous. But once again, God showed me how to work. And I knew this person that they thought that they shouldn't

00:57:23.780 - 00:57:46.670

hire New everyone on campus. And everyone on campus knew me. I could call physical therapy and get appointments for students

00:57:46.670 - 00:58:01.200

who had an interest in physical therapy, aka call College of Agriculture. Everyone on campus knew me and could work with me.

00:58:01.900 - 00:58:28.260

The students. I worked with the BHAGs, great kids. And they would come and pull up a chair next to me and just spill their guts.

00:58:28.750 - 00:58:43.970

And the students that I work with, I'm still in contact with. One of them is adopter emergency room doctor

00:58:43.970 - 00:58:55.570

down at the beach in Lewis. I don't know if you know what college are you in? What you were say Delaware.

00:58:55.570 - 00:59:02.510

Oh, I mean, But are you in the new College of Education? Arts and Sciences. Arts and science.

00:59:02.510 - 00:59:12.440

Do you know Imani Pal? Uh, money? I don't think so. That guy, Imani pow, I might have heard the name on.

00:59:12.440 - 00:59:19.500

I don't know if that would have been on email or something I read it was in VHA I think he's an academic advisor.

00:59:20.050 - 00:59:33.770

Kelly pal, makefile pal. She's an Assistant Dean. And she human resources now. Not human resources.

00:59:33.770 - 00:59:51.300

That college. They changed the name Yeah. So many times. But anyway, these are not just lack students. Black students, white students,

00:59:51.300 - 01:00:12.150

different nationalities are students. They all loved me and they call me Ms. H. So yeah, this person who they thought was not the person for the job.

01:00:13.000 - 01:00:26.840

She was the one. And so kind of like the same way that I came here, I've prayed about all this and

01:00:26.840 - 01:00:42.540

the same reason that I came to Brooke side to live instead of living on New London or whatever, was to break the wall.

01:00:45.580 - 01:01:01.450

The reason I went to admissions and stay there so long because people had to learn that color is

01:01:01.450 - 01:01:17.690

not something that you can't touch. But it's something that you can touch. When you allow it to touch you, then you learn that you can touch it.

01:01:19.800 - 01:01:39.950

You know, if you don't get close enough to a person of color, then you really can't make any you really can't know that.

01:01:39.970 - 01:01:55.050

We can't just judge them by what you see on the outside. You have to let that person Touch shoe. Once they touch your heart.

01:01:55.510 - 01:02:07.180

You don't even see color anymore. You see a person. And I guess that's what that's what I had to do out here.

01:02:07.180 - 01:02:17.410

Now, I'll hear I didn't work. It didn't work out so well. Well, it sounds like a lot of people, it didn't work out that way.

01:02:17.410 - 01:02:23.360

You know, with all the students that you helped and all the maybe other faculty and staff you were involved with.

01:02:23.360 - 01:02:30.980

So yeah. Great. Yeah. So yeah.

01:02:30.980 - 01:02:46.190

I'm glad I got that story about how affirmative action made them hire me. Can you speak more about that room before we know more about it

01:02:46.190 - 01:02:54.160

because I don't know how it went because I just know that it had to be taken to for affirmative action.

01:02:54.160 - 01:03:03.500

And the guy that was my boss, the guy that was in charge of hiring me. He had printed the first one. You worked in the military.

01:03:03.500 - 01:03:15.960

He ability university for a long time. And for them to get through him. He I don't think he he didn't like the fact that they were saying,

01:03:15.960 - 01:03:26.200

you won't hire this black woman. You're going to hire her because she is qualified. He didn't like it.

01:03:26.200 - 01:03:36.360

You know, he didn't like it. And to this day, I wonder how my black people work in a while. I know a whole lot more than that.

01:03:36.360 - 01:03:54.900

Left. There were people of all genders and colors in there. But it has to start somewhere. And somebody has to walk through the door.

01:03:55.780 - 01:04:13.700

Somebody has to buy the first house. I guess I'm just that person. And I said to myself, right now I'm 69 years old

01:04:13.700 - 01:04:30.460

and I'm in the process of saying, Gosh, what have I done in my life? What am I, what am I going to do? What am I going to do

01:04:30.460 - 01:04:46.870

with the rest of my life? And I work a lot in my community. And now I'm able to have time to be a member of the end of LACP.

01:04:46.870 - 01:05:04.520

I have time to help with community projects. Right now. We're working on a project to try and open a museum in part

01:05:04.520 - 01:05:16.110

of the George Wilson Community Center, which used to be the new London Avenue colored school. And so, you know,

01:05:16.570 - 01:05:35.250

whatever life I have left in me, I'm just still on that groundbreaking floor. Able to speak up and say, no, I don't know if that's right.

01:05:35.250 - 01:05:49.100

I think maybe you should look at it this way. Or April to open my heart. And allow people like you to see something more.

01:05:52.740 - 01:06:07.990

Recently. Took a course on racial dialogue at the why. I took it about maybe two or three years with the pandemic and we add them up.

01:06:07.990 - 01:06:22.410

So I took the course, I took it twice. And then they asked me to come and facilitate the course.

01:06:22.410 - 01:06:31.520

And so I've done some facilitation of the course. And now they have another sort of the course

01:06:31.520 - 01:06:42.910

on a different level. And so I'm in the process of training to do that, to open the door for dialogue,

01:06:42.910 - 01:07:01.060

for people to be, to talk about this whole racial issue. And so hopefully I can make a difference in the lives of people.

01:07:01.060 - 01:07:12.410

Not for a paycheck, but just because it's the right thing to do. I think you've already known that. Pardon?

01:07:12.410 - 01:07:30.210

I said I think you already have done that. And I'm sure you'll continue doing that and, you know, it never stopped exactly. Yeah. You know, it's just a process.

01:07:30.520 - 01:07:38.990

Lifelong journey. Uh-huh. Definitely. I don't know how much we've

01:07:38.990 - 01:07:52.130

talked about the area. You got everything covered without me even having to ask too much. Let's say I feel like I got

01:07:52.130 - 01:08:02.870

so much great information from you from all the topics that I needed. So I feel like I'm sat with my information. Is there anything else you want to just talk

01:08:02.870 - 01:08:08.930

about or have just on the record before we end. Thanks. Any other topic?

01:08:08.930 - 01:08:21.950

Maybe I didn't mention that you feel is important for additional information. Well, the one thing that I guess I want to say is

01:08:21.950 - 01:08:39.000

that this year we'll be celebrating the 100th anniversary of the New London road. Didn't have in a colored school.

01:08:39.550 - 01:09:06.450

And which was in the George Wilson Center. And that school was built by DuPont for the colored children. A 100 years ago.

01:09:09.940 - 01:09:27.110

That bloating is one of the only buildings left standing in that community. And it was a building

01:09:27.110 - 01:09:42.480

where everything happened for me as I was a kid. I went to the playground there, you know, in the summer time when there was no pool.

01:09:42.480 - 01:10:01.090

I got sprinkle with a hose. That was our activity. Now, we have to rent space in the building

01:10:01.090 - 01:10:38.280

because the city owns it. And I'm just hoping that one day that building will be we'll store things that

01:10:38.280 - 01:11:01.470

help us remember historic New London community. It's not that big. But I just really feel that it's the least

01:11:01.470 - 01:11:16.920

that the city of New York and the university could do for the things that they've done. I hope it gets done.

01:11:22.150 - 01:11:34.330

Well, thank you so much for that. You need more than enough information for me. Amazing amount, which is great. So I appreciate that so much.

01:11:34.330 - 01:11:47.250

I'm going to stop the recording now. I can absolutely find a way to show that to you, to let you here. Alright.