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Alright, this is Devin Roth interviewing mr. Gerald Allen on Wednesday, November third, 2021 in Morris library for history at 268, with Mr. Dr. Roger Horwitz.

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Alright, Mr. Allen, we're just going to start with your early life. What is your earliest memory?

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If you remember? In life, yes. I would say that I have a sister. I have six sisters.

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But the sister is that is directly under me. I'm number eight of ten children. So this is SR number this is number nine child.

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I remember when she was born. She was born in the house that we grew up in and lowest Delaware. Alright.

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Can you expand a little bit more about your family growing up and Lewis? As I said earlier, on, number eight or ten children,

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I have older siblings that were out of the house when I was there. At that particular time, My earliest memory would be this

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brought up in a small town called Jim town Louis. It was a that particular time. A dirt road is no longer a dirt road,

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has streetlights, sidewalks. Now, we were small African-American community at a party in that particular street. Well, we're all, basically we're all related,

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but it was a village. Everybody knew everyone. And at that particular time, you can leave the storm door open button,

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have to worry about any security. Abby body was very respectful. Alright. So now we're gonna move on to your relationship with UD.

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What were your thoughts about UD before you came here? Like what was the reputation in the state of Delaware?

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Especially for the African-American community? Well, the reputation was it was the best institution of

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higher learning in the state of Delaware. I have older siblings. That what the Delaware State, however, myself and my two younger

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sisters went to the University of Delaware and it was really prestigious that you were able to get in and

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to get an education at the University of Delaware. My high school guidance counselor was the one set.

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Surely you can make it at the University of Delaware because he attended the University of Delaware many,

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many years before me, of course, and also my track cosets. It's a great school and thought that I would bet asset and

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the school would pay an asset to me. Alright. So then once you've got here, what were your first impressions

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about the university? Well, I was very fortunate at that particular time that was the program call out what bound in college trying.

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So therefore, in the 11th grade, gone to the top grade, I was in that went down and it will come during the summer months to take

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some classes acclimated to the university in addition to additional classes that you could take. And then your 12th grade

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at the graduate from high school, you come in during the summer. You got received six college credits during the summer.

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So therefore, you got a leg up, so you didn't have to take the 18 credits that maybe some students who have taken,

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you could take maybe 12 to 15 just to get acclimated, to break it and to break into what the rigor of a large university.

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Alright, So then moving into campus life, you've already been here, have gotten acclimated a little bit. What was it like in the dorms,

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especially as an African-American students. But very important. I felt really proud about that. My dorm, my RA at,

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at the decline happened dependent African-American. He happened to be from downstate from Milford,

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Delaware and he's employee he was employed later with the University of Delaware. It was it was great.

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Not I had a roommate of course. And that was something to get used to. Of course, I grew up down and Louis, I always had a roommate.

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What's my my brother, but we went that flows in terms of sharing things. My roommate thought that, I guess my closet was

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his closet to some degree, so it was a little tough. But I thought that campus life was good. In fact, I thought

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the dining hall food was very good because you can eat all you wanted and it was just great. It was a community because

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other people were in college try just like I was OR and we were small unit within the University of Delaware. That's interesting.

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You use the word community. Did you branch out at all or did you typically associate mainly with

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other African American students and other students involved in the Black Student Union or did you branch

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out and you had friends from all walks of life? I had friends from all walks of life. I graduated from Caitlin Logan

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High School in 1973. A lot of my classmates from capa looping from Lewis came to you, came to University of Delaware as well.

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So I got a chance to see them. But it was different from high school and college. I usually associated with the people who

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stayed on East Campus because that's where I live. And a lot of the African American students that was on campus because we have

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lightness and just a great community here on, saw the campus for me. Now I went to the carpenters wars centered to play basketball and things of that nature.

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So I did have an opportunity to see the rest of the campus. But I saw most of that too when I was in college try so it

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wasn't that when I walked from Gilbert see that was my first one was Gilbert see, Rome to 16. I walked to a memorial hall

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to my English class. Is that I was familiar with that because of the experience that I had put college try. So I wasn't looking all

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around because I was familiar with it. I knew it Main Street looked like because I had the summer preparation. You keep mentioning this college

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try it seems like it was very good for giving you a leg up and getting you acclimated and kind of helping you meet people before

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you were kinda thrown into the school. So that's very interesting to hear more about your social life. You mentioned you were in

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omega psi phi fraternity? Absolutely. Can you talk a little bit about that? Glad to. I became a member of medicine and

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find 1976 I saw when some gentlemen plays before me in 1974. So I was here at the inception of black real-life here live on campus.

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I saw that the gentleman here, we're goal oriented individuals and I wanted to be a part of that. Also knew about them may decide fine too,

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because my uncle was a member of Omega sine Phi, but he happened to be a member. And they're late shift

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these data Delaware State University. So I was familiar with fraternity life. It gave you a little bit more ownership. Belonging, purpose.

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You did community service, event, civics events. You studied together, scholarship. You uplifted not only your progress

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that was in the fraternity, but the community around you and you wanted to make a difference. Very interesting.

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You mentioned competing in some sort of fraternity based athletic competition. Oh, that was great. Life. Had an event for Big Brothers,

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Big Sisters, and that was all fraternities and sororities. And I remember one night we had a dance and one of

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my paternity brothers say 0, we need to have representation. And this event and this tomorrow. And it's done that the field house,

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I feel house now this is where the bothers and you had to compete. Well, I didn't drink smoke, I stayed in good shape.

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So therefore, I've got up and I competed. And fortunately enough, I won that competition. And the next level was to

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go to Keys University. And I competed there as well. And for some reason it stopped at a particular level of the graph.

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Hope I did represent my fraternity and the University of Delaware at that level, at the Brothers and Big Sisters.

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Very interesting. You mentioned you did track in high school and you played basketball recreational here as well. What role did sports play

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overall in your experience here at UT? Sports played a very important role. In high school. I played three sports,

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football, basketball, and I ran track. Coming to the University of Delaware. I wanted to play football and I went out for the team,

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but I realized that to play. You have to set the patch for a couple of years before you make it because freshmen played freshmen

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bald and he had the upperclassmen. I guess I wasn't willing to wait. So bottom line, I did not play football. I stopped plan side and end

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up playing basketball and the mural team called the bolus. And we were very good. I believe that our basketball team,

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but as competitive equal to, if not better than the University of Delaware men's basketball team.

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So I played on the bolus and we did very well. I was a good track runner, while the one the best in the state of

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Delaware at that particular time. But I did not run try here at the University of Delaware. But I was known for being

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a good hurtling number two in the state at that particular time. Wow. Alright, so somewhat related

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to athletics, there's clubs. And you mentioned you were in the Black Student Union was seemed to play a very large role for

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African-American students at the university at this time. Could you expand a little bit more, work on your time that VSCO?

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Well, the BFOQ, it wasn't the center of black culture that particular time. It was the Ujamaa house right across

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the street from the center black culture where it is now. And that's where you would go and get two accounts thing.

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They would help you map out the classes that you need to take, make sure that you took the right classes because

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sometimes the University of Delaware advisers didn't help you as much as you thought they should help her get it would give you a schedule that

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maybe too rigorous and cause you to go into academic probation. So the people at the advisors that the Ujamaa house,

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like Wayne Brown, karen Brady, Dr. Janet Jordan, Dr. Alvin turn. They will help you to make sure that he was on

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the right track to be successful at the University of Delaware. Very interesting. Yeah. From what I've heard, the PSU and you just mentioned what was it?

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The jama house. You down my house, Ujamaa house. It seems very influential in African American community at UD.

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So then further, I want to ask you a little bit about your work experience. You mentioned you were

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a dishwasher and Harrington. Yes, that's interesting. It's both play football. I go down and tell Toby I'm not going to play

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football anymore for you? No. I guess my financial aid was cut off. So bottom line, I end up washing dishes at the Harrington Dine house.

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I did that for a couple of years and become an RA and Elaine, and that was great. You learn a lot by doing work.

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Now, I'm not using a man. I'm no stranger to how I work. I used to wash dishes done in the rest of that and the hobos when I was

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a kid from ninth grade to 12th grade. And up there, the short order cook down as well, but I did not mind working to make

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my way to the quality student here at the University of Delaware. I knew I had to work as part of what makes you who you are.

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Of course. Of course. So moving on to the academic side of things. What what was your experience academically with,

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like, what classes were you taking him a costume. Enjoy any particular professors that you enjoyed having?

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Well, I was education majors, so therefore I did enjoy my education classes. That was a professor

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at that particular time they adopted Newton took Black Studies. I think he was very influential. Black students or all students

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at the University of Delaware. Communication to be 61, I think it's 362. I enjoyed those classes,

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did a music appreciation. I did play in the high school band miles in high school, so I took music appreciation.

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That was only a one credit course that had taken classes was enjoyable. One of the things I did find out that maybe found out too late.

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Ben, from sauces counting. You used to go to school from eight o'clock or 733. And my friends were telling me,

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why did you pick this class? First thing in the morning mean a the club. I didn't know it was on the horizontal radish that big I pick the class

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because I was used to go on in the class eight o'clock, not not at epithelial time. I could have picked

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picked it at nine o'clock, but it was eight o'clock. Start today. Let's get it going. So I learned later on

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that I didn't have to take classes at eight o'clock. That's very funny. You mentioned Dr. James Newton and he was

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one of the African-American faculty members. Were there any other African-American faculty members that you had a particular connection to?

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Not that I can recall offhand. One other thing I would say that was a bonus for me coming from cape and Logan High School

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with integrated long time ago, most of the classes I took when I was in high school, I was the only minority in the class.

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That's the only black in the class that was used to that. And University of Delaware was no big eye-opener for me.

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It was just part of I grew up to be I mean, my friends from high school, like I said earlier, can DOD some of them who came to my room.

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Sometime I would go to that room. But as we got older, we get and look distance. But the old guidelines

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in response to the COVID-19, pandemic, masks or cloth face coverings must be worn properly at all times. Why Morris Library?

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Thank you for your help and keeping everyone safe and healthy. Sorry about that. So bottom line is that going to

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a University of Delaware as opposed to a bigger scale than going to keep a local. One of the things I do remember about classes that freshman year,

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I took this psych class, 100 Wolf Hall. I think it was like 2010. So when I went into that auditorium, it was so big to me,

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it was like a pep rally that we had in school because it was over a 100 people. So my classes were

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so small ones in high school, like 25, at most 30 students. And that was paid for me, those big lecture hall

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where the professor was down at the lecture podium. And you had about 200 kids in their students in there.

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Same thing with smiles hall with the Smiths. My I can't even pick up the course about those big classes, but I do remember

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our first-class was 100 war flawed. It was, it was huge and it was like unbelievable that so many people, one of the things that was common then,

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definitely not common now, professors and those laws classes did not know you, but they would post

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your grade by your social security number. They turn to that now, but it was by your social security that was unbelievable that that happened

00:19:22.820 - 00:19:29.240

back in the 17. That's how you knew what good luck at the subscale. Now, I know it was my grade.

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That's never done today, so that's very surprising. I've never heard that. Did you have so you mentioned you

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were kind of used to being either the only one or one of only a couple of African-American students classes.

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Did you have any sort of like when it comes to the racial climate at UT at the time, did you have any bad experiences?

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If you're willing to open up about that with right. Professors or other students? You know, with the students.

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I didn't have any issues. I do recall my freshman English class where it wasn't Memorial Hall and the small class, professor, maybe about 25 people,

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30 people at most. And that he was handing out the syllabus. And as he was handing out the syllabus, you see what was going on

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was expected idea and the professor not knowing me at all. And I never forget this. As he handed out the syllabus to me, said,

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just let you know the best grade you're going to get in my classes, the C or the best grade you can get in my classes,

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the C and I was a little taken back behind. All right. I worked. I show them that I know how this will work.

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Of course I got better than a C and I think he appreciated that the work that I did. So that was on

00:21:02.000 - 00:21:13.940

the negative experience that I would say that. Was a little taken back on yeah. I mean, justify with so to be yeah,

00:21:13.940 - 00:21:26.300

that's very surprising to me. But when it comes to your advisors were like, how, how did that work as an African-American students specifically?

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Well, I did not go to my University of Delaware. Advice is I went to the people at the detail on my house and as I learned,

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I saw what classes I needed to take. And I took those classes. Well, one of the things that you found out too is that people were taught what professors they had

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and what they thought about that professor. So therefore, you wanted to take their classes because they were successful in it.

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You felt that they were successful in that class. You could be successful, best assessed as well,

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or be successful as well. All right. So then going outside of UD in the town of new arc,

00:22:09.980 - 00:22:17.540

when you're spending time here, were there any racial discrimination instances that you experienced,

00:22:17.540 - 00:22:29.760

particularly on Main Street or with any restaurants? More police? No. I knew how to navigate myself,

00:22:29.760 - 00:22:38.440

coming from Sussex County and navigate myself. I didn't have any issues. I can tell you the big social place

00:22:38.440 - 00:22:49.320

on Main Street when I was here was the stone alone. And I think I went in the stone balloon for about three minutes. To this day.

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I have never been in the Deer Park. And that was huge and never been there. Not even to this day. I've done deal part.

00:22:58.480 - 00:23:07.670

Any particular reason for that was a place where you track and what I shouldn't chase I take general. But I think it was button next

00:23:07.670 - 00:23:19.340

to We'll a hall where most of my education classes where I just never went into Parker's. I didn't have I did not have a problem.

00:23:19.340 - 00:23:30.090

I mean, if the RAs that was in the dorm, they were respectful. I got along well with the people

00:23:30.090 - 00:23:46.790

on my floor in my dorm. I really had a great time here at the University of Delaware. One of the things I pride myself on,

00:23:46.790 - 00:23:53.360

I will go to the football games because I love her. So I will go to the game. And one of the things I wanted to

00:23:53.360 - 00:24:03.770

do when I got older, I wanted to be a fan. So I pin a season ticket holder for the University of Delaware football team

00:24:03.770 - 00:24:11.090

for many, many years. And I started supported women's basketball team, season ticket holder for

00:24:11.090 - 00:24:24.620

my new basketball for many years because I enjoyed my experience here at the University of Delaware. Very good. So after

00:24:24.620 - 00:24:36.110

you graduated from University of Delaware, can you talk a little bit about your career? Well, I will say that the University of Delaware prepared

00:24:36.110 - 00:24:46.540

me very well for the world of art. Not only network with people, but in some instances, prepare you for high standards.

00:24:46.540 - 00:24:55.820

And sometimes making people who may look at you differently, become believers that you can and you will base,

00:24:55.820 - 00:25:07.390

assess what other people like you be successful. I went into education, an education for over 40 years.

00:25:07.390 - 00:25:20.170

I wanted to be a role model was just like my elementary teachers were to me and my high school teachers. At my high school.

00:25:20.170 - 00:25:33.480

I came to Logan when I graduated. There was only one teacher of color school. And she was a music teacher that traveled from the middle school,

00:25:33.850 - 00:25:45.020

elementary school, to high school. My teachers, all of them are Caucasian or whatever. But the bottom line is that

00:25:45.020 - 00:25:52.220

they treated me wouldn't most respect and always believed that I could learn. And they always want to try to get the

00:25:52.220 - 00:25:58.650

best out of me to make me learn. And that's what I saw that the University of Delaware, and I've done that in my career.

00:25:58.650 - 00:26:07.330

I was a teacher. I was a dean of students. I was assistant principal of the high school principal.

00:26:07.330 - 00:26:16.040

Real love that I happened to be the high school principal, provide to kids graduated from high school. And I'm noun to direct

00:26:16.040 - 00:26:24.200

the school operations and personnel for. In cats counters low tech school district, it's a great opportunity. I'm still had the same vigor

00:26:24.200 - 00:26:35.840

and motivation now that I had 2030 years ago because I saw what the teachers before me have done and the difference

00:26:35.840 - 00:26:43.520

that we wanted to make. Even now in this setting up COVID, you still want students to learn. But what we've found out is that

00:26:43.520 - 00:26:54.160

the students still want to have that human contact. That what makes the difference. Amazing, isn't it?

00:26:54.160 - 00:27:03.090

It's very inspirational. Said here, you seem like you had just a phenomenal experience at the University of Delaware and is it

00:27:03.090 - 00:27:09.980

really permeated throughout your entire career? Well, it all goes back to the first question. Yes.

00:27:09.980 - 00:27:20.030

It's about upbringing. My parents always instilled in us. Do your class THE path, even though we may not be there,

00:27:20.030 - 00:27:29.360

representing a family, your community, and your people. So therefore, you always act like your mom is right next to you,

00:27:29.360 - 00:27:39.200

so you're not going to do anything embarrassing. University of Delaware. I still love it. I went

00:27:39.200 - 00:27:50.300

to homecoming last week because It's just great coming back to see what has taken place. One of the things that I wanted to say

00:27:50.300 - 00:28:00.430

that I should have said no freshman year. It was funny because in college try we had a group of folks that we all

00:28:00.430 - 00:28:06.520

did the summer programs together. And then you saw some other folks that weren't in cows tried coming

00:28:06.520 - 00:28:18.590

to the University of Delaware when you walked from when I walk from Gilbert C. To make a memorial hall, it's my home.

00:28:18.590 - 00:28:27.980

You saw people walking. If you saw somebody who's in college trying or black like you, you smile.

00:28:27.980 - 00:28:37.960

Because the dropout rate here at that particular time was very, very high. You might have had maybe a 125 people.

00:28:37.960 - 00:28:45.440

And at that particular time, the next semester, probably only sell maybe 75. And at the end of the year you only sell 50.

00:28:45.440 - 00:28:54.320

So when you saw him first semester, you smile. When you sell them the second semester, still hear you wanted to hug him because

00:28:54.320 - 00:29:02.870

next year it was great because we made it and we walked the block. I had to make a decision

00:29:02.870 - 00:29:12.900

whether wasn't going to football, What was the only books I made, the decision is going to be poked. So I graduated with

00:29:12.900 - 00:29:20.150

a piece of paper in my hand and I thought that was more important. They can football or bouncing a ball or running the hurdles.

00:29:20.150 - 00:29:31.510

Life as a hurdle. I just kept that but me all the time. All right. Any other closing thoughts to know?

00:29:31.510 - 00:29:40.170

I'm just glad that they have the University of Delaware and you have particular class history to 68 is taking this opportunity.

00:29:40.170 - 00:29:48.590

I really wanted to commend you for setting up the Senate. It's tough to make a cold call to someone that you don t know and

00:29:48.590 - 00:29:55.260

then had that connection that they want to meet you a certain time and we stayed in touch. I really appreciate what you've done.

00:29:55.260 - 00:30:02.680

I hope that you will learn a lot and your classmates will learn a lot from this experience. And I'm going to tell your professor,

00:30:02.680 - 00:30:09.800

he's doing a great job. He's represented the University of Delaware very well. So I'll make sure that's reflected.

00:30:09.800 - 00:30:24.680

The bottom line is that this is good. I think this needs to be captured in terms of how African American students made the journey at

00:30:24.680 - 00:30:32.510

the University of Delaware, because it was probably not as important as it should be. But now you see it's more inviting.

00:30:32.510 - 00:30:40.670

My eye goes up when you go to the home time and I say large number of students that are excited about being a part

00:30:40.670 - 00:30:49.850

of University of Delaware, even though probably within the last five years, in the last ten years,

00:30:49.850 - 00:31:02.570

I bet you by the Darrell's homecoming, we were competing against the HBCU, meaning you, Delaware State University having that homecoming or surrounding school

00:31:02.570 - 00:31:11.240

may have in May had the homecoming. And our students believe so much in the University of Delaware that they wanted to come back and say, hey,

00:31:11.240 - 00:31:19.550

thank you, University of Delaware, thank you for the people who I connected with and we still come back. So I think that's the plus to

00:31:19.550 - 00:31:33.020

the culture that was built by just who we are and what we stand for. And we want to make sure that that continues to many generations course.

00:31:33.020 - 00:31:41.350

And you mentioned you served on a number of committees to improve the served on a number of committees to help increase their enrollment.

00:31:41.350 - 00:31:47.540

Minority students here at the University of Delaware. One of the things I was saying, you can say that the book is

00:31:47.540 - 00:31:53.630

that I was a diamond member. I'm sorry, I'm no longer diamond member. And the data members that you had to contribute

00:31:53.630 - 00:31:59.210

so much money to the university database here, but I used to be a diamond and MSL that tells you how much I

00:31:59.210 - 00:32:07.920

believe and what the University of Delaware is doing for all students and specifically people of color.

00:32:08.260 - 00:32:18.910

Well, thank you for coming in for this interview. And I believe that's all I have for you. What thank you. That was a pleasure.

00:32:18.910 - 00:32:21.330

San Diego. Thank you.